phildug
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Posts: 51
What I collect: Belgium, Greece, Belgian Congo, Ruanda Urundi and postal history of the two world war
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Post by phildug on Mar 28, 2024 18:50:50 GMT
I have a problem with some Machin. When I try to wash them from paper, some of them loose their colors. I use cold tap water for less than 10 minutes. It's OK with most of the Machin, but some value seems not to tolerate this treatment.   Is there any rules? Or some of the Machin are most sensitive due do the different printing methode:Photogravure, Intaglio (Engraved), Typography, Electro-Mechanical Engraving (EME Gravure),... |
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Mar 28, 2024 19:40:19 GMT
In all the 60 years that Machins have been around I have never had this issue……weird !
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rod222
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Posts: 9,914 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Mar 28, 2024 20:11:22 GMT
I have a problem with some Machin. When I try to wash them from paper, some of them loose their colors. I use cold tap water for less than 10 minutes. It's OK with most of the Machin, but some value seems not to tolerate this treatment. Is there any rules? Or some of the Machin are most sensitive due do the different printing methode:Photogravure, Intaglio (Engraved), Typography, Electro-Mechanical Engraving (EME Gravure),... Observation of a non specalist Only thought I have is "Chalky Paper" ? But first, we need to enquire about "Wash" ? can you elaborate? We usually "soak", in other words just leave to release by them selves, no "rubbing" or "washing" regime. I have scanned over 1,800 Machins, and only have 3 that show similarity Foolishly, I named them "test" , and I have no recollection of what that test was I failed to elaborate. I support your use of just cold tap water.    |
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,914
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Mar 28, 2024 20:26:17 GMT
A FYI (For your Information) Machin with "Fugitive Ink" ? link |
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angore
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Posts: 5,355
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Mar 29, 2024 11:14:15 GMT
I have soaked many Machins and have many previously soaked and do not see anything like this.
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phildug
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: Belgium, Greece, Belgian Congo, Ruanda Urundi and postal history of the two world war
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Post by phildug on Mar 29, 2024 16:47:32 GMT
When I said "wash", I mean soaking. (My english is not always correct) And it doesn't concern a lot of stamps; roughly,I would say it happens for less than 1% of the lot. I had to throw away 12 stamps from more than 1 kg of on paper. Of course these are cheap stamps, but still it's disappointing. rod222 do you know wich stamps were made with "fugitive ink" ? In the future I would keep them on piece. May be I could try to send a mail to the Australian guy of the GBS philatelic society in your link. Thank for your inputs. |
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,408
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Mar 29, 2024 16:49:11 GMT
Holy smokes! Are you adding anything to the water? 10 minutes in plain, cold water shouldn’t cause this result. I’d be concerned about drinking the water!
OR - it could be that those stamps had been exposed to something earlier? OR they were like that before you put them in the water and you overlooked them in the pile?
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phildug
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: Belgium, Greece, Belgian Congo, Ruanda Urundi and postal history of the two world war
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Post by phildug on Mar 29, 2024 17:00:22 GMT
philatelia : For the first batch I added a small amount of vinegar. But in the following bacth,I used only tap water. Here in my town, the water is very calcareous ("calcaire" in french) and is chlorinated. But it's drinkable and doesn't smell chlorine. As it was a big lot from abroad, your suggestion of a previous exposure is possible.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,914
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Mar 29, 2024 20:10:55 GMT
When I said "wash", I mean soaking. (My english is not always correct) And it doesn't concern a lot of stamps; roughly,I would say it happens for less than 1% of the lot. I had to throw away 12 stamps from more than 1 kg of on paper. Of course these are cheap stamps, but still it's disappointing. rod222 do you know wich stamps were made with "fugitive ink" ? In the future I would keep them on piece. May be I could try to send a mail to the Australian guy of the GBS philatelic society in your link. Thank for your inputs. I have no idea of any Machin that has fugitive ink. I have not experienced it. After 15-20 years on stamp forums, I have read members soaking in Vinegar (eek) , soaking with dish soap, soak in boiling water, soaking 1000's at a time, I bought a collection once for a few dollars, of stamps kept in numismatics pockets (plastic) which evidenced drastic pigment leaching. In the end, one becomes immune to collector's antics during their collecting journey, their learning, just like mine when I soaked every stamp I had, when I began. Most are just folly, and most weird results can be traced back to "bad husbandry" Humidity and light in their history, can add to the mix. Bad gum on cheap hinges can cause staining Poor ink recipes, can cause colour changes."Sulphurisation" et al Sulphuric acid in gum (Germany 1935) Be aware of the possibilities, keep records and move on, is my regime. If, a Machin existed with fugitive ink, you can be sure it will be recorded somewhere It is a stamp possibly the most investigated and documented anywhere, by Machin tragics. |
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,643
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 29, 2024 20:42:31 GMT
Were the stamps whole/complete looking before soaking?
I have spent the better part of the past 3 years trying various manners of soaking to determine what and isn't detrimental, and short of using solvents, I can't say I have seen anything like this.
As I am not familair with the machines (though I have soaked quite a number) are these someof the self adhesive varieties?
FWIW- I have not tried lowering pH or neitralizing alkaine water as my tap water is typically 6.5 - 7.5 pH.
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phildug
Member
Posts: 51
What I collect: Belgium, Greece, Belgian Congo, Ruanda Urundi and postal history of the two world war
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Post by phildug on Mar 30, 2024 10:39:38 GMT
stainlessb "Were the stamps whole/complete looking before soaking?" I didn't look at each stamp before soaking, so it's possible that they were already in bad condition. But I didn't notice it when I put them in the water.
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