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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 10, 2024 19:21:53 GMT
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 11, 2024 1:07:56 GMT
Greetings to all forum members! Dear friends, your opinion is very important to me! I have a very interesting brand in my collection. I couldn’t find any information about Bisect from Bulgaria. How rare are such stamps, and are they valued by collectors? Not seen any in my 25 years of worldwide collecting I'd be circumspect. Also the example is not bisected from corner to corner, (more red flags) Only example I could find, is ebay on cover with no address (philatelically inspired?) "Philately begins where the catalogue ends" so it's now behove of you to search out further help online write to Bulgarian bloggers etc for their opinion. Keep us informed of the responses And good luck, finding perhaps what you seek. Reflect : If they were valued by collectors, then why cut them from the cover?
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Post by viking1234 on Apr 11, 2024 7:11:41 GMT
Greetings to all forum members! Dear friends, your opinion is very important to me! I have a very interesting brand in my collection. I couldn’t find any information about Bisect from Bulgaria. How rare are such stamps, and are they valued by collectors? Not seen any in my 25 years of worldwide collecting I'd be circumspect. Also the example is not bisected from corner to corner, (more red flags) Only example I could find, is ebay on cover with no address (philatelically inspired?) "Philately begins where the catalogue ends" so it's now behove of you to search out further help online write to Bulgarian bloggers etc for their opinion. Keep us informed of the responses And good luck, finding perhaps what you seek. Reflect : If they were valued by collectors, then why cut them from the cover? Your reflection I like it, but why cut any stamp from the covers? DVI have 4 øre cuts also without covers, Belgium have cuts, Faroe Island and probably a lot of other countrys, could be covers take up space , and the postmark as I see it at the cut @oleksandr-Germany shows is tiede to the stamp, but you never know.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 11, 2024 11:34:48 GMT
viking1234"Your reflection I like it, but why cut any stamp from the covers?" 1. Are they covers ? often philatelically inspired bisects, appear on doubtful parchments. 2. The fact they are cut out, suggests some knowledge of the scarcity (or proposed scarcity) of the item. This knowledge (if it were from a genuine source) would realise the market value increases ten fold, if on left on cover. It would be rank stupidity to cut from cover. (Of course the rogues out there, are equally aware of setting the honeypot to trap the unwary collector) I am a sceptic, I want proof an article is genuine, all else is subject to scrutiny, and labelled "doubtful" Wishful thinkers will always argue theirs is the real thing, sometimes they are correct (I have witnessed it 3 times in 30 years) One thing that remains a constant, in these things, the owners, of the doubtful material, never come back (hardly ever) to claim bragging rights of their proven genuine article (3 times in 30 years)
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 11, 2024 12:40:46 GMT
Reflect. If other countries have bisects, the Bulgaria's is genuine That falls over, using that premise, every country in the world has a bisect. So, what generates a bisect? A country's post office somewhere, runs out of a certain value stamp, the Postal regime of that country cannot supply stock, so gives permission to cut a double value postage stamp in half to cover that reduced value. 1. It requires official approval, and generally speaking will be listed in Stamp Catalogues. I see no such advice 2. That postal office needed 1 stotinka valued stamp, to mail a letter ? Postage rates need to verify that. 3. 1 stotinka stamps were produced in 1885, 1886, 1889, it would seem stock was in abundance If they were indeed in short supply, why bisect, when it is easier to surcharge another value stamp? (1 stotinka surcharge in 1889) No, I don't buy it, It may be indeed genuine, but I shall happily wear egg on my face, should it be proven
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 19:35:27 GMT
Good afternoon friends ! An expert on Bulgarian stamps answered me by email. Visually, the bisector is real!!! Cancelled with a real seal. The census of such stamps numbers only a few! And the denomination of 2 stotinki bisect sees for the first time. The expert advised to make a certificate of authenticity in Germany and notify the Bulgarian Philately Organization about the find.
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 19:43:50 GMT
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 19:49:57 GMT
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,612
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Apr 11, 2024 20:32:49 GMT
For sure you should keep your bisect. I lean towards it’s being genuine but the value is greatly reduced since it was cut from the cover. Clipping off stamps from envelopes has been common probably from the beginning of stamp collecting.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 11, 2024 20:37:40 GMT
Here's what I found on the Internet. Notice how the stamp is cut in half. [ /URL]Sorry, still don't buy it. (Notice I'll not leave THREE exclamation marks !!! to show over exuberance) In informal writing, multiple exclamation points are sometimes used to indicate stronger emphasis or emotion. However, in formal writing only one is necessary. Look at the detail image of the bisect on cover, the "S" appears under the stamp. I'd need a certificate from a recognised Bulgarian expertiser. That's my opinion. "For the world is full of trickery" (Desiderata) To wit link
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 20:48:35 GMT
Thank you friend! hdm1950 ! Yes, unfortunately, a lot has been spoiled, a lot has been lost, or not found, thanks to scissors))) One thing is good, although the stamp has been cut out, it alone in its denomination may exist and has been preserved even in this condition! When a stamp of any country exists in one or two copies, I think there may be a small value, but the price will not decrease even if it is cut out! For me, philately is not an income, but a very exciting hobby)
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 20:56:44 GMT
Here's what I found on the Internet. Notice how the stamp is cut in half. [ /URL]Sorry, still don't buy it. (Notice I'll not leave THREE exclamation marks !!! to show over exuberance) In informal writing, multiple exclamation points are sometimes used to indicate stronger emphasis or emotion. However, in formal writing only one is necessary. Look at the detail image of the bisect on cover, the "S" appears under the stamp. I'd need a certificate from a recognised Bulgarian expertiser. That's my opinion. "For the world is full of trickery" (Desiderata) To wit link This item was sold at the Corinphila auction in November 2021 for 1500,00 EURO (+ commission) Zürich.
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 21:05:08 GMT
I also found certificates that the Bisect brand of Bulgaria is 50 stotinki, only three copies.
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 21:11:23 GMT
Here's what I found on the Internet. Notice how the stamp is cut in half. [ /URL]Sorry, still don't buy it. (Notice I'll not leave THREE exclamation marks !!! to show over exuberance) In informal writing, multiple exclamation points are sometimes used to indicate stronger emphasis or emotion. However, in formal writing only one is necessary. Look at the detail image of the bisect on cover, the "S" appears under the stamp. I'd need a certificate from a recognised Bulgarian expertiser. That's my opinion. "For the world is full of trickery" (Desiderata) To wit link 1882: 50 st. blue and rose, diagonally bisected on cover from Plovdiv to Constantinople. The Stamboul arrival cancel dated June 22, 1890, the date on the despatch is somewhat unclear. According to our records there are two further copies of this bisect in existence on cover, which also eminate from Plovdiv with similar characteristics, paying the 25 st. foreign rate with a bisected 50 st. The cover shows some traces of aging, which given its rarity should be of little significance. The lot is accompanied by copies of the other existing bisects. Opinions Karaivanoff (1951) Todd AIEP (2014) and Penev (2021).
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 11, 2024 21:23:58 GMT
Quote "This item was sold at the Corinphila auction in November 2021 for 1500,00 EURO (+ commission) Zürich." Response "Han van Meegeren sold $60 million worth of fake Vermeers to everyone from Hermann Göring to the government of the Netherlands." Look, I get your'e excited, to find just one of a few stamp shards supposedly existing, perhaps the the only one in the world. enjoy the feeling, I am not here to be a mood killer, just offering a healthy scepticism. You won't sway me in my opinion, without scholarly debate and opinions from recognised philatelic expertisers The online stamp market abounds with altered stamps and covers, with unsuspecting buyers sucked in to parting with their money Anatomy of a fraud
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Post by Oleksandr-Germany on Apr 11, 2024 21:24:17 GMT
Sorry, still don't buy it. (Notice I'll not leave THREE exclamation marks !!! to show over exuberance) In informal writing, multiple exclamation points are sometimes used to indicate stronger emphasis or emotion. However, in formal writing only one is necessary. Look at the detail image of the bisect on cover, the "S" appears under the stamp. I'd need a certificate from a recognised Bulgarian expertiser. That's my opinion. "For the world is full of trickery" (Desiderata) To wit link1882: 50 st. blue and rose, diagonally bisected on cover from Plovdiv to Constantinople. The Stamboul arrival cancel dated June 22, 1890, the date on the despatch is somewhat unclear. According to our records there are two further copies of this bisect in existence on cover, which also eminate from Plovdiv with similar characteristics, paying the 25 st. foreign rate with a bisected 50 st. The cover shows some traces of aging, which given its rarity should be of little significance. The lot is accompanied by copies of the other existing bisects. Opinions Karaivanoff (1951) Todd AIEP (2014) and Penev (2021). Corinphila Auctions AG 8032 Zurich | Wiesenstr. 8 | Tel.: +41 (0)44 389 91 91 | info@corinphila.ch
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 11, 2024 21:26:13 GMT
Quote I also found certificates that the Bisect brand of Bulgaria is 50 stotinki, only three copies. Excellent. Nice research, well done. Now all we have to do is find one for the 1 stotinka I am excited to see, and witness the Expertising certificate, you receive from Germany, for your piece. I am warming the bacon on the stove, to have with the egg on my face
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Post by viking1234 on Apr 15, 2024 9:00:18 GMT
Reflect. If other countries have bisects, the Bulgaria's is genuine That falls over, using that premise, every country in the world has a bisect. So, what generates a bisect? A country's post office somewhere, runs out of a certain value stamp, the Postal regime of that country cannot supply stock, so gives permission to cut a double value postage stamp in half to cover that reduced value. 1. It requires official approval, and generally speaking will be listed in Stamp Catalogues. I see no such advice 2. That postal office needed 1 stotinka valued stamp, to mail a letter ? Postage rates need to verify that. 3. 1 stotinka stamps were produced in 1885, 1886, 1889, it would seem stock was in abundance If they were indeed in short supply, why bisect, when it is easier to surcharge another value stamp? (1 stotinka surcharge in 1889) No, I don't buy it, It may be indeed genuine, but I shall happily wear egg on my face, should it be proven well if the stamp value you need is late in printing, if you want to surcharges stamps you need to have Values for the overprint takes time to make and is expensive, the solution, "lets cut the stamp in ½", these stamps could be used for ekstra porto, for penalaty Porto for letters ec. Why would the stamps be cut from the letter?. Hmmme this is a preprinted page from a Stender album, you want to know why they are cut from the letter? My Bulgarian language is a little rusty, and I have no Spezialized catalogs from the Country I do not know what the postal authorites have send to the local Postoffice if they run out of certain values in theire stock, you really have to read all the postal circulars from the country to know what to do if you runs out of a value and the solution "cut a value in half" I do not have a catalog from the area of your interest but Belgium. Would be nice with a Date in the postmark, but it could be a penalty for to little postage on your letter or it could be an added value due to the Postoffice might have run out of a value, guess there could be lots of reasons. Here is a page from Belgium, sorry for the scan but not all countrys list the cuts and sometimes you need spezialiced litteratur, I have catalogs that do not list cuts fro Belgium, that do no mean they dont exsist.
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djcmh
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Posts: 773
What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on Apr 15, 2024 9:24:23 GMT
I checked in my copy of the Sofia Philatelic Association's Specialized Bulgaria Catalogue volume one (2019 edition) and there is no information regarding bisects on the 1886 2 stotinki value, so most likely this was a temporary measure done at a local level without official sanction from the Post Office authorities. the variants listed are for mis-spelling of Bulgarska and for broken rosettes in the top right corner Notes translated (using Google Translate) * In use: 09/30/1901. * 12-13 are printed with spelling errors: "ONE CENT" (12), instead of "ONE CENT" and "TWO CENTS" (13), instead of "TWO CENTS". * 12-20 were printed by four orders: from 4.IX.1882 (put into use on 4.XII.1882) - 3, 5, 10, 15, 25, 30 and 50 st.; from 31.II.1884 - 3, 5, 10, 15 and 25 st.; from 8.II.1885 (put into use on 25.V.1885) - 1, 2, 5, 10, 15, 25, 30 and 50 cent.; from 23.V.1886 - 3, 5, 10, 15, 25, 30 and 50 cent. * From this series begins the printing of the Bulgarian stamps of 5, 10 and 25 cents in colors established by International Postal Union (green, red and blue). * Of all values occur with darker or lighter shades. 12-13 are on thin paper, from 12-14 there are also on thick, and from 14-20 - on very thin paper. Copies of very thin paper +100%. * From 14 they are known with an inverted background and with an orange spot under the rear right paw of the lion, and from 15 - with the colors of 16, pink and light pink. * The watermark also occurs inverted 180°, mirrored, mirrored and inverted 180°. The brands with a larger portion of watermark letter are rarer. +200% are rated. * With the same plots 6-11. * 16 and 18 with overprint, see 21, 23, 24 and 26. There are counterfeits of all brands.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Apr 15, 2024 10:10:53 GMT
Quote
so most likely this was a temporary measure done at a local level without official sanction from the Post Office authorities.
Indeed, A philatelically contrived phantasy, The forger has dragged in the believers.
The first Bulgarian exchange society of Philippopli (PHILIPPOPLE) , and especially its Vice President Crista Genoff has made forgeries of the Surcharges on the 1881. A full description can be found, The Philatelic Journal of America, August 1894 No116 page 51
Fournier also Forged them Forged Postmarks can be found Fournier Album of Philatelic forgeries.
Billig's notes forgeries of the 5c "K" of "APCKA" has turned into an "R"
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