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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2017 19:45:52 GMT
Russia: 1919 OKCA Army of the North  Genuine set. A common stamp series found in most WW collections. However, the availability is primarily due to the fact that 90% are forgeries. This issue has proved very difficult to determine what is real and fake. This is compounded by: 1. The various papers used. 2. The condition of the dies at the time of printing both for the forgeries and the originals. 3. The minor differences in the forgery types - YES, there is more than one type.... 4. The fact that so little is known of these that many experts have differing views on what is genuine and what is forged. For more on these follow this link.... OKCA |
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BC
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Vancouver, BC Canada
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What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Aug 3, 2017 20:18:37 GMT
Nice link Falschung. I have quite a few of these stamps. I will have to sort the forgeries again because I never new there was two types. I will post some scans if I see anything unusual.
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BC
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Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Aug 4, 2017 17:17:23 GMT
From your website:
Vasia says on the SCF forum:
So the question is, is the 15k or the 50k that exists on both papers, along with the 20K.
I do not have any 15k on pelure paper, or any 50k on wove paper. I have the 20k on both.
The Russian catalogue seems to indicate your statement is correct.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 4, 2017 19:15:29 GMT
Ceresa, Soloviev and the Russian specialty catalogs that list them show only the 20 & 50 on pelure. Some catalogs (Michel Russia) only mention the 50k on pelure
Rossolovitch did a lot on these but I did not find any paper mention.
Based on prices they are less common than the regular paper.
The 20 is 3X CV of the regular, the 50 is 1.5X
This is not to say that a 15k pelure does not exist but it would be extremely rare. It appears there is a pelure forgery so is it a mistake by the forgers or did they copy genuine ones?
The Red Army apparently destroyed large quantities of this issue.
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BC
Departed
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Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Aug 4, 2017 20:54:44 GMT
Thanks for that information Nelson. As for the 20k, I find the forgeries hardest to identify. Here are some of the items I have. Genuine, wove paper  Genuine, pelure paper  This one is not so obvious. Forgery, based on deteriorated "1919"?  Forgery on thin paper:  You can use any of these on your website. If you need higher resolution, let me know. They were scanned at 1200ppi |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2017 16:26:55 GMT
1 & 2 appear genuine
3 is a type II forgery thick frame line, indistinct 1919 and overall lack of detail
4 is unusual, obviously a forgery. It may be a very deteriorated Type I which has a very thick border, poorer detail than the Type II but it does not match any of the B/W examples I have very well.
The 20k is by far the hardest to determine.
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Aug 5, 2017 23:23:13 GMT
That would make this a less deteriorated type I ?  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2017 0:44:13 GMT
more like a Type I
Thick border, second 1 linked to above letters, very poor detail.
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BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
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Post by BC on Aug 6, 2017 16:07:08 GMT
After examining a genuine used block of the 20k I have, the visibility of the "1919" date can vary based on the position on the sheet. This block has the dot after the 9 on position 1 and 3, while positions 2 and for have no trace of the dot. Position 3 also has part of the 1 visible, while the others don't.  Position 1 and 2   Position 3 and 4   |
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