hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 9, 2019 18:47:49 GMT
Today, I have received on offer a large set of various Bavarian return stamps:   I'm tempted, but they're asking for 150 Euros. The stamp on the top card (YT #R2) I already have, but the others (YT #R8, R9, R11, and R14) I do not, and here they are offered in many different variants which I was unaware of. Opinions welcome! |
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khj
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Post by khj on Mar 9, 2019 19:54:19 GMT
Nice! I really have no idea of the catalog values on these, and how often they come up for sale.
The real issue is how seriously do you want to specialize in this. Not knowing the catalog value nor how much you normally spend, a quick count indicates 73 stamps (22 items, 1-2 dozen different major/minor varieties). That comes to roughly 2 Euros per stamp, or 7 Euros per item, or 10 Euros per variety. Are these per stamp/item/variety costs something you are willing to pay for this area?
I know for me, there are some specialty areas where I know things will come up for sale again with 5 years and I'm more than willing to wait. Then there are other cases where I wouldn't hesitate to pay US$2-3 per stamp because the items/grouping rarely comes up for sale, or because I view the personal enjoyment value in this case would far exceed the catalog/cost. It's sort of like -- where is it worth spending my money to go for a vacation? Sometimes it's just about the enjoyment value.
Of course, when your wife finds out about it... (better be prepared to take her to a very very nice vacation spot; just sayin')
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 20:11:16 GMT
Some background for those not familiar; These labels were supposed to be for letters that were undeliverable to the chief-offices. The letters were opened to find the name of the sender and the label was used to affix the flap of the return envelope.
According to 'The Stamps of the German States' by B.W.H.Poole the chief-offices of Augsburg, Bamberg, Munich, Nurnberg, Speyer and Wurzburg existed in 1865. The arms type appeared first and full sheets of 84 stamps were printed for each office. Slight differences in design exist for most offices due to subsequent printings. For Nurnberg, even two different types exist on the same sheet. The office of Regensburg was added in 1869 with a different label (text type). The previous arms labels for the other offices were then superseded by the text type (probably all in sheets of 30). A few spelling errors exist. The individual labels sell from $8-$15 but they are not stamps so they may not be very collectable.
The thought being one could buy them and resell individuals but without a complete set that would be difficult.
There are a few sellers offering individuals which may be a better route IMHO. ALSO, I do not believe the top ones are genuine Aside from being very different, the double border is missing & the paper color is wrong.
Here is the first series...        The last one was sent by a German forum member. It listed for $170. An obvious very crude forgery with a Spiro cancel. This is from a reliable German auction site  |
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hrdoktorx
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Posts: 6,604
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 9, 2019 20:59:42 GMT
The real issue is how seriously do you want to specialize in this. Not knowing the catalog value nor how much you normally spend, a quick count indicates 73 stamps (22 items, 1-2 dozen different major/minor varieties). That comes to roughly 2 Euros per stamp, or 7 Euros per item, or 10 Euros per variety. Are these per stamp/item/variety costs something you are willing to pay for this area? I'm not afraid to spend several tens of euros per stamp, if I really want them. I'm not sure those fall in that category, though. Nor do I really specialize in this sort of back-of-the-book issues. But thanks for your thoughts. |
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hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Mar 9, 2019 21:11:37 GMT
ALSO, I do not believe the top ones are genuine Aside from being very different, the double border is missing & the paper color is wrong. I also see the markings in the corners around the circle are quite different from your example (and the one I see in my Yvert Catalog). So I'm growing increasingly wary. The stamps are indeed described as "1. Ausgabe ESSAY Nr. 1 Ecken with Haken" (First issue, essay #1, corners with hooks).  |
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khj
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Post by khj on Mar 9, 2019 21:27:44 GMT
Interesting. Since the seller does describe them as essays, does anyone know what a genuine Ausgabe essay is supposed to look like and how much they would normally retail?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2019 22:47:21 GMT
From a 1940 specialized book on Bavaria, this is described as an essay on thick paper, it is different from any posted in appearance. The margins and lack of guide lines are more typical of an essay which is generally a single stamp not a whole sheet which if it existed would be more of a trial sheet for final printing/color/paper etc.
Now I will amend my thoughts somewhat on the seller's offer which eluded me in the original small image.
The large horizontal line at the bottom of the crest is a noted essay feature as seen above. The Augsburg essay was noted in older Michel catalogs as #1 but no longer appears SO, it is possible the seller's offer is a trial sheet with the large horizontal line but I have no info on this.
The multiple guide lines in the offer sheet indicate that this was also for final printing.
There have been essays as above offered (rarely) at very reasonable prices.
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khj
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Post by khj on Mar 9, 2019 23:05:40 GMT
Great info @falshung! Thanks for the details and pics!  k |
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Ryan
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What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Mar 9, 2019 23:47:54 GMT
According to 'The Stamps of the German States' by B.W.H.Poole the chief-offices of Augsburg, Bamberg, Munich, Nurnberg, Speyer and Wurzburg existed in 1865. Speyer! Well, there's my German historical geography lesson for the day. I wouldn't have thought of Speyer as being a Bavarian city - it's quite a ways over to the west, well outside of what I would think of as Bavaria. So I looked it up, and back in the days of the Kingdom of Bavaria, Bavarian territory included an exclave known as the Rhenish Palatinate (a portion of the current state of Rheinland-Palatinate, nabbed by Austria from France during the Napoleonic Wars and later traded for Salzburg and two third-round draft choices, ha ha - central European history has resulted in just about every city belonging to somebody else at some point along the way).  Ryan |
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