tobben63
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Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,866
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Apr 11, 2020 7:54:47 GMT
As a 'postmark junkie' who need to learn I started this tread. Does someone know a reference to these numbered cancellations?
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stanley64
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Posts: 1,832
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Apr 11, 2020 8:05:44 GMT
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Apr 11, 2020 11:30:39 GMT
Tobben, great topic for a new thread!
If you check the 'library' you have access to, you'll find reference to the numerals. The Excel postmark register for COGH have them all 👍
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tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,866
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Apr 11, 2020 19:54:44 GMT
530 (first stamp) is MOLTENO. A smal town in the middle of nowhere ... 824 (second stamp) is BURGHERSDORP, innside Johannesburg. Thanks for the help stanley64 and blaamand
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Post by clivel on Apr 11, 2020 21:45:39 GMT
Actually both Molteno and Burg(h)ersdorp are both small towns in the middle of nowhere - somewhere in the Eastern Cape and fairly close together, about 50 to 60Km apart if I remember correctly. Despite having driven through Molteno far too often when visiting my in-laws I have never been to Burgersdorp, but doubt that I missed much Clive
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WERT
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Oct 21, 2020 15:43:33 GMT
Here is a Cape of Good Hope with a double cancel..Not being able to identify it. BUT, nice extended column on the right...Kinda neat.
Robert
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 21, 2020 20:31:02 GMT
Hi, Robert ( WERT ), and thanks for your post! I hope you don't mind, but I moved it to this thread, since it didn't have a date pertaining to the Postmark Calendar. I noted that you previously posted this same image in the Cape of Good Hope: Stamps thread back in Feb-2020, but at that time, I wasn't able to respond about your image, but I think I can now. So, here goes: I think that what you have is an example of a COGH duplex cancel that looks like this: Image excerpted from: Mordant, David. The Barred Oval Numeral Cancellers of the Cape of Good Hope from 1863–1963, published 2017. At first, I was a bit confused by what I saw on your stamp, but today I finally realized that it was a matter of the duplex cancel being struck twice and overlapping. The stamp, with its "extended column" as you called it, is an example of a classic GB and British Commonwealth "wing margin" copy. Example of a "Wing Margin" stamp: Great Britain, Sc48, 1-shilling green It is absolutely a totally interesting copy of this stamp and accompanying postmark, which took me some time to figure out... great post, Robert, thank you!
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Post by clivel on Oct 21, 2020 21:37:44 GMT
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 21, 2020 22:02:18 GMT
Many thanks for that, Clive ( clivel)! I have now downloaded the newer edition.
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 21, 2020 22:32:01 GMT
Thanks for that link clivel , I have just bought a large collection of S Africa ......... a mad spur of the moment decision as I have never handled these in detail before . It will be a learning situation and I do hope you and Beryllium Guy , might help me from time to time. Thanks also to Vince stanley64 for the link in April to S. Africa postmarks. I bought the collection for two reasons , there were examples of the two Baden Powell and Goodyear stamps used which I did want for my Wartime interrupted mail , and there was a challenging dozen triangles. The rest , is a mysterious area much of which I may or may not keep. Some will have to be turned into cash to recoup at least part of the purchase price . Once I have checked the barred ovals I’ll do some posting.
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Post by clivel on Oct 22, 2020 23:22:27 GMT
I bought the collection for two reasons , there were examples of the two Baden Powell and Goodyear stamps used which I did want for my Wartime interrupted mail Once you have the collection more organised, I would love to see some examples, particularly the Mafeking siege, Baden Powell and Goodyear stamps. If I am not mistaken it was during the siege that Lord Baden Powell came up with the idea for the Scouts movement.
Clive
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Post by clivel on Feb 14, 2021 0:39:45 GMT
The third edition of "The Barred Oval Numeral Cancellers of the Cape of Good Hope from 1863 – 1963" is now available for download from www.psgsa.org/publications Those that with an interest in Southern African may be pleased to know that back issues of "Forerunners" the journal of the "The Philatelic Society for Greater Southern Africa" are also available for download from www.psgsa.org/journal/forerunnersClive
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 17, 2021 14:28:57 GMT
Cape of Good Hope Triangle Unusual Cancel & RouletteYesterday, I failed to win this item in an eBay auction. It appears to be a genuine example of a COGH, SG18, which I would consider to be a "woolly" print. I am interested to know if anyone has seen this capital "D" cancel before? My original guess was that it must be fiscal, but then it also occurred to me that it looks a bit like some auxiliary markings that I have seen now and then. If anyone has seen this before and would be willing to share what it is, I would be grateful to know. The rouletting is suspicious, because the COGH triangles known to have been locally rouletted were from the Perkins Bacon printings, while this example is clearly a De La Rue printing. The eBay seller described the rouletting as possibly fake, which I feel certain kept the bidding down. I have checked all of my COGH references, but I have not been able to find anything about this, although I feel sure that I saw this "D" cancel once before somewhere online. Any comments about this item would be appreciated!
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khj
Member
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Post by khj on Aug 17, 2021 15:13:37 GMT
Probably need to confirm the roulette gauge. I don't know if multiple roulette gauge was used, but on the genuine rouletted triangles I've see, there were 1-2 fewer slits per side
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 17, 2021 17:32:20 GMT
I asked a local member of the S Africa society about the “D” , he reports nothing at all like it in the “postmarks of the Cape of Good Hope” book.
That whole stamp looks odd…. With an aroma of fish .🐠🐟🐡 the roulette cuts are distinctly different sizes some long and some short
would there be a watermark do you know ?
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 17, 2021 19:39:59 GMT
Thanks for your responses, Kim ( khj ) and Alex ( vikingeck ). I agree with both of your comments that the rouletting is, indeed, suspicious in appearance. I have actually not tried to investigate it. I have some photos of genuinely rouletted Perkins Bacon issues from the Maxwell Joseph Collection auction catalogue, and at some point, I could try to size them for side-by-side digital comparison. Alex, I don't know about the watermark. Are you wondering if it is an SG22 with sideways Crown CC versus the usual anchor? The seller only posted an image of the front of the stamp, but he identified it as an SG18, which I accepted when I saw the image. I think it is a genuine stamp, but the question is: what happened to it since then? At the moment, I am actually more interested in the "D" cancel and figuring out if that is identifiable or meaningful in any way. I feel certain that I saw this cancel once before on an item offered for sale, but I cannot remember where, and I don't seem to have kept a record of the image (I checked).
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,610
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Aug 17, 2021 21:21:34 GMT
Beryllium Guy - everything looks bad about this triangle. I think you should be thankful you didn't win it. Might you share a link to the auction listing?
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 17, 2021 21:26:51 GMT
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 17, 2021 22:09:33 GMT
Just as a further point of information, please see the image below: Left: COGH, SG18 from my collection; Right: COGH, SG18 with unusual rouletting and "D" cancel, offered recently on eBay Looking at the two stamps side by side, I think it should be clear that the stamp on the right is a genuine De La Rue printing of the 1-penny triangle
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,610
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Aug 17, 2021 23:12:55 GMT
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WERT
Departed
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Aug 17, 2021 23:36:26 GMT
Sorry..I also agree with Jeffs
1 - Look at the "OF"..Legit on left - so called fake on right...."O" higher than "F" on right stamp.
2 - Look at "S" on legit stamp left and so called fake on right.
3 - Look at "N" on legit on left and so called fake on right.
I am NO expert, just my opinion.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 18, 2021 7:12:12 GMT
My question regarding watermark, for which there is no answer , was not whether it was anchor or crown CC , but whether there is a watermark at all!
It just does not feel right somehow. Absence of a watermark would confirm my doubts.
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 18, 2021 7:33:36 GMT
Thanks, Alex ( vikingeck), I understand your point. And thanks to Robert ( WERT) and JeffS for your comments as well. Based on the appearance of the scan, I am still inclined to believe that it is a genuine SG18 with unusual features, but of course, I don't have the actual stamp in hand to examine more closely. I think I will try a couple things: - Contact the seller on eBay to ask if he can tell me anything further about the watermark or provenance
- Send the scan to Richard Debney to ask if he can offer an opinion
Since I didn't win the item, and I didn't ask these questions while it was still an active auction, I think that this will be about as far as I will be able to take it. I do find it interesting that the direction of the discussion has been to question whether or not the stamp itself is genuine, when it seemed clear to me from the start that it was a genuine stamp, but just with unusual features that I couldn't otherwise explain. I will post an update if I learn anything further. Thanks, everyone!
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Post by michael on Aug 18, 2021 7:40:38 GMT
I'm sorry @wert, they are just variations in the ink around the O making the Os appear to be at different heights. I have a plate proof of the 1 penny and the O of OF is actually slightly higher. Here's an example from my pair of the same De La Rue printed stamp, the ink has bridged the gap in the 'P'.
No variety, just part of the printing process in those days.
Michael
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Post by michael on Aug 18, 2021 7:44:55 GMT
Very confusing having the same discussion in two threads!!
I've just posted a reply in the other thread prior to reading the replies here.
Yes, contacting Richard Debney is a good idea.
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 18, 2021 7:59:05 GMT
Thanks for your posts, michael. I agree with your comments. There was a lot of over-inking and colour variation in the Cape triangles. Sorry for the dual discussion. That is my fault. I just wanted to have a record of my original post in a COGH-specific thread in addition to the catch-all ID thread. I didn't expect to get responses there. Perhaps I should just move all the posts over to the catch-all thread for now and then once the discussion dies out, move everything back to the COGH thread where it can remain.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 18, 2021 9:19:20 GMT
Thanks to all responders: khj, vikingeck , WERT , JeffS , and michael . I have now consolidated all posts into this COGH-specific thread. Sorry for the confusion and the dual posting.... I won't do that again! In the meantime, I have sent messages off to the eBay seller of the item and to Richard Debney. Will let you know if I get any responses.
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 18, 2021 9:26:29 GMT
I have already heard back from the eBay seller: So, Alex ( vikingeck), the seller confirms that he could see the watermark, so at least we know that much now. Let's see if I can get lucky twice in the same day and get a quick response from Richard, too.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,610
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Aug 18, 2021 10:50:36 GMT
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,661
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 18, 2021 11:02:01 GMT
Thanks for your post, JeffS. I agree that the Stamp Forgeries website is an excellent resource. It is run by TSF member Morten ( classicalstamps), and I have consulted it frequently. I have also sent a message to Morten privately asking for his opinion about this stamp.
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