abctoo
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Post by abctoo on Apr 16, 2020 2:56:04 GMT
I found detailed Stamp Forum posts on Indian Feudatory states that began in 2008, but I cannot find them now. From what I remember, the following four stamps address the "Ugly" issue of those prior posts, but I have some questions they did not answer (or provide examples of Problems raised). The stamps are ugly enough to be genuine. but who knows? I acquired all of them over 40 years ago and recently rediscovered them in storage. 1. India-Dhar State, 1 anna, Imperf Margin Pair on thin pair. These 1898-1900 stamps are supposed to be perf 11 to 12. Imperf between examples of the 1 anna are catalogued in Scott and Stanley Gibbons, but no fully imperf 1 anna stamps are listed. Both catalogues list a variety of the ½ anna as Imperf. Any information?  2. India-Bamra State, 4 annas, Imperf Single. Note: what is supposed to be the first "a" in "annas" is not an "a". I cannot find out more information about it. The few reference guides I have to fakes do not identify the underlying stamp as a fake. Also, not having seen enough cancellations and the weakness of the strike, I cannot even tell if the cancellation is genuine.  3. India-Jhind State, ½ anna brown buff, postally used, Perf. 12, horizontally laid thick paper, a variety of Scott #30, S.G. #27b. I especially appreciate the old Stamp Forum listings because they provided excellent examples of genuine cancellations.  4. India-Jhind State, ½ anna Blue revenue stamp. This is the stamp the drives men crazy. As a postage stamp it was issued in different colors (see above item). The catalogues do not mention the same design was also issued in "blue" for revenue purposes only (Forbin #2). Many hours can be spent trying to find a postage stamp catalogue that lists it.  |
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Post by feebletodix on Apr 16, 2020 7:49:14 GMT
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,627 
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Post by salentin on Apr 16, 2020 8:02:35 GMT
I know very little about the stamps of the Feudatory States of India and own few stamps only. In regard to Jind 1/2 A. blue,Michel lists a non-issued stamp from 1888 (!). Michel no.I A perforated 12 and no.I B imperforated.Both variety are not priced. (What does not mean they are expensive,but Michel could not find an evaluation.) I guess that is your stamp. Interesting is the footnote in Michel at the end of Jind as a Feudatory State,what reads (in short): Since 1885,when Jind became a Convention State,the previous issues were used for fiscal purposes only.
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rex
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Posts: 1,150
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Post by rex on Apr 16, 2020 20:54:14 GMT
I should have a fews of India feudatory states,..I don't know much about too, but I liked them a lot instinctively.
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on May 3, 2020 20:03:26 GMT
I found detailed Stamp Forum posts on Indian Feudatory states that began in 2008, but I cannot find them now. From what I remember, the following four stamps address the "Ugly" issue of those prior posts, but I have some questions they did not answer (or provide examples of Problems raised). The stamps are ugly enough to be genuine. but who knows? I acquired all of them over 40 years ago and recently rediscovered them in storage. 1. India-Dhar State, 1 anna, Imperf Margin Pair on thin pair. These 1898-1900 stamps are supposed to be perf 11 to 12. Imperf between examples of the 1 anna are catalogued in Scott and Stanley Gibbons, but no fully imperf 1 anna stamps are listed. Both catalogues list a variety of the ½ anna as Imperf. Any information? 2. India-Bamra State, 4 annas, Imperf Single. Note: what is supposed to be the first "a" in "annas" is not an "a". I cannot find out more information about it. The few reference guides I have to fakes do not identify the underlying stamp as a fake. Also, not having seen enough cancellations and the weakness of the strike, I cannot even tell if the cancellation is genuine. 3. India-Jhind State, ½ anna brown buff, postally used, Perf. 12, horizontally laid thick paper, a variety of Scott #30, S.G. #27b. I especially appreciate the old Stamp Forum listings because they provided excellent examples of genuine cancellations. 4. India-Jhind State, ½ anna Blue revenue stamp. This is the stamp the drives men crazy. As a postage stamp it was issued in different colors (see above item). The catalogues do not mention the same design was also issued in "blue" for revenue purposes only (Forbin #2). Many hours can be spent trying to find a postage stamp catalogue that lists it. FOLLOWUP ON THE ABOVE POSTING. I have learned that: Item 1 is a genuine Dhar 1898 1A Dhar Coat of Arms reddish violet imperf pair, listed in a more recent Stanley Gibbons catalogue as SG 9b with CV 200 pounds. Item 2, the stamp is a complete fake what was purported to be from Bamanda (the correct name of the state, though some of its genuine early stamps say Bamra). The most recent editions of Stanley Gibbons and Scotts continue to misidentify the name of this Indian State. Item 3 is a genuine Jind 1885 ½A lemon SG J48 with a Stewart-Wilson type 2 cancel stamped sideways. Since the apex of the cancel is not impressed on the stamp, the number designating the specific post office is not visible. The Stanley Gibbons catalogue for Jind was updated at some time after my 1953 version, which listed only 42 types and now provides the new catalogue number. There is an article on the Jind inverted-cordate cancels titled "The Heart-Shaped Postmarks of the Feudatory State of Jind" by John Warren; Ref. India Post (No.201 Vol.L No.4 10-12/2016); p.161. Item 4 is a blue Jind revenue stamp. However, it has been found postally used on petitions to the Jind king. This information came from the very knowledgeable Indian Feudatory States stamp collectors at stampboards. |
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cursus
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Posts: 1,771
What I collect: Catalan Cinderellas. Used Switzerland, UK, Scandinavia, Germany & Austria. Postal History of Barcelona & Estonia. Catalonia pictorial postmarks.
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Post by cursus on May 23, 2020 9:09:45 GMT
Any idea of what these might be?
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,627
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Post by salentin on May 23, 2020 12:19:02 GMT
Early Nepal.The different prints from 1881 till 1918 are a cause for desperation and frustration,when one tries to identify them correctly. By the way the most left one Anna stamp and the right green 4 Annas are shown upside down.At least I think so.
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cursus
Member
Posts: 1,771
What I collect: Catalan Cinderellas. Used Switzerland, UK, Scandinavia, Germany & Austria. Postal History of Barcelona & Estonia. Catalonia pictorial postmarks.
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Post by cursus on May 23, 2020 13:36:13 GMT
Thank you very much. I didn't know how to properly place them.
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on May 25, 2020 3:55:33 GMT
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cursus
Member
Posts: 1,771
What I collect: Catalan Cinderellas. Used Switzerland, UK, Scandinavia, Germany & Austria. Postal History of Barcelona & Estonia. Catalonia pictorial postmarks.
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Post by cursus on May 25, 2020 6:55:55 GMT
Thank you very much. I'll have a look. I should do some research on the stamps of that area.
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on May 26, 2020 15:42:50 GMT
Thank you very much. I'll have a look. I should do some research on the stamps of that area. The Richard Frajola websites are quite detailed. Nepalese stamps of this design were initially issued in 1881 on European white wove paper, and to meet demand over approximately the next fifty years were printed again and again on both European white wove paper and native wove paper. Both papers are found pin-perfed and imperf. Most were issued without gum. The crudeness of the design various from stamp to stamp in the same sheet and over the years. In 1907, Nepal issued new stamps with a more consistent design that for the most part replaced the older designs. Though still postally valid, the older stamps were put aside as remainders and those who already had them continued to use them. In 1917, Nepal set up a telegraph system. From 1917 to 1929, the remaindered stamps, further printings of its old design and printings of stamps of a similar design to the remaindered ones were used to pay telegram fees. All of these were valid for postal use. A typical telegraph cancel is somewhat crescent shaped, but many postal cancels look similar. Richard Frajola's works go into great detail identifying the 30 or so different printings, their dates of issue and distinctive characteristics. His studies also provide for distinguishing between postal and telegraph cancels, so that the usages of a canceled stamp can be determined. What does this all mean? Scott's catalogue does not adequately identify the different printings. From Scott's descriptions it is easy to confuse a late issue stamp with an earlier one, or visa versa. The stamps were issued over a 50 year period. Scott's does acknowledge the problem and indicates that the price for used stamps of Nepal issued from 1899 onwards are for telegraph cancels, not postally canceled ones.. The scarcity of postally used copies of the 1899 and newer issue stamps makes them considerably more scarce than those with telegraph cancels. It can be a detailed study, but sometimes you are surprised at what you find (and may even start looking for more to meet the challenge). Good luck, Mike |
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cursus
Member
Posts: 1,771
What I collect: Catalan Cinderellas. Used Switzerland, UK, Scandinavia, Germany & Austria. Postal History of Barcelona & Estonia. Catalonia pictorial postmarks.
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Post by cursus on May 27, 2020 5:45:01 GMT
Perhaps, a too complicated field to start with. Old dogs don't learn new tricks!
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oldpapercollect
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All giveaways have ended. Thank you.
Posts: 384
What I collect: UPU, UNITED NATIONS, SCOUTS ON STAMPS, CHICKENS ON STAMPS, ESPERANTO & CINDERELLA STAMPS and ISRAEL POST OFFICE OPENINGS SINCE 1948
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Post by oldpapercollect on May 28, 2020 11:55:06 GMT
Ugly but interesting. See the faces?  |
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salentin
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collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,627
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Post by salentin on May 28, 2020 13:25:41 GMT
Ugly ? To me it looks quite delicate and beautiful. But what is it ? A fiscal ?
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on May 29, 2020 16:58:54 GMT
The Stamp Boards' thread, "Indian state revenue stamps, and stamped papers," has an October 18, 2010 posting that includes a very similar black 1 anna stamp to the one shown above. The text of that posting starts with: Here are the ultimate uglies /Dhar:" followed by three pictures. I've lifted them from the website for that thread [http://www.stampboards.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14253&start=150], at page 4, to post below. Those stamps are denominated 1 anna, 4 annas and 1 rupee. The pictures were immediately followed by text reading: "More values to be followed soon. Seems like the value tablet is separate from main tablet and values are added as per requirements resulting in all sorts of odd and even values." Though that thread is still active on the Stamp Boards, neither before 2010, nor even over the past 10 years since, has anything been added about this specific Dhar issue. That thread does, though, have quite useful information about the fiscals of many other Indian Feudatory States. From the cancelation on the 4 anna stamp, it seems these Fiscals were in use in 1896 to pay Court Fees. The postage stamps of Dhar were in use from 1897 until becoming obsolete in 1901.  1 anna  4 annas  1 rupee |
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abctoo
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Post by abctoo on Jan 3, 2021 3:31:25 GMT
I am sorry to say that on January 1, 2021 I found out that the Stamp Boards had lost a key expert on Indian Feudatory States. Mr. Joy Daschaudhuri, an expert on identifying, translating, and transliterating numerous languages and scripts used in India resigned from the Boards in September after the Administrators publicly castigated him for using correct transliterations of names that appear on Indian States stamps, in cancellations and on covers in those scripts. They wanted him to use what they called the "common names" of places and not their actual names. They said that so that people would understand what he was talking about. It's like they wanted him to always say "Bombay" when the name is "Mumbai" that someone mis-transliterated long ago. Indians don't call it Bombay. I was just banned for a week from that website because I wrote in his defense. The "Uglies" thread there has gone downhill, with many unanswered questions in Joy's area of expertise. Perhaps, I too should resign from that website? Mike
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Post by michael on Jan 3, 2021 9:15:24 GMT
You can't resign from that forum, you will always be a member, it gives then a higher membership count. You can however, like me and many others here, choose not to post there.
I have an interest in some Indian State stamps so have found that thread very useful.
You could always invite your collegues to this forum. Be aware however that personnal messages to other members can be read by you know who.
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philatelia
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Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
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What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Jan 3, 2021 10:42:41 GMT
We would be delighted and honored to have those posts with the correct spellings posted here.
Re Stampboards - #$&*-%@ them!
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