philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,408
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
|
Post by philatelia on Apr 22, 2021 14:42:39 GMT
Some classic forgeries are quite collectible and have value, yes? But does anyone know of a source for pricing these? A complete, concise, clearly illustrated forgeries and reprints catalog would be invaluable.
|
|
|
Post by smauggie on Apr 22, 2021 15:18:04 GMT
For classic stamps there is: Album Weeds. It was originally printed as a book or pamphlet in many volumes. This website now represents the information in a digital format. It does not give values though, either in the original books or the website. So maybe I just wasted your time.
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,659
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 22, 2021 15:20:18 GMT
An interesting question, Terri ( philatelia ). I don't know of one that lists values. Most tend to stress identification versus genuine. Here is a link to a free catalogue: www.filatelia.fi/forglinks/forgery-catalogue.pdfI was not familiar with this one, so just looking at it now myself.
Double Edit: There is also an online listing of forgeries, which is apparently only partial: www.filatelia.fi/forglinks/forged-stamps-a.htmlBut none of these lists seem to have any values indicated. It's a new project for you, Terri! Personally, while I care about avoiding forgeries and identifying genuine stamps, I don't have much interest in the value of the forgeries. But I know that others do, so perhaps it would worth investigating.
|
|
khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
|
Post by khj on Apr 22, 2021 16:17:13 GMT
I think there is a great hesitancy for anyone to produce a comprehensive priced catalog of forgeries.
Pricelists from some of the infamous forgers as well as some limited dealer listings still exist, either as originals or documented online, but no comprehensive priced catalog exists as far as I know. Most professional dealers shun listing forgeries.
That being said, there are a handful of famous forgeries that will knowingly sell for above the catalog value of the originals (e.g. a couple of Sperati forgeries, Hitler Death Mask propaganda stamps...). Again, no comprehensive priced catalog that I am aware of even on the premium forgeries -- just have to check the auction prices realized or dealer price lists on those items. Collectors of forgeries/cinderellas will pay money for those particular items. The great bulk of forgeries, collectors pay for unknowingly/unwittingly without having to go out and purposely buy forgeries. On occasion, I have seen reference collections of forgeries in major auctions -- they tend to be well-documented and do sell at surprising prices, but they usually also contain a few difficult to obtain items. In general, I would say they were purchased for the documentation/comprehensiveness rather than financial value of the forgeries (my opinion).
Best wishes, and yeah, I'd certainly be interested if such a priced catalog existed...
|
|
khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
|
Post by khj on Apr 22, 2021 16:37:01 GMT
Regrettably, that is just a drop in the bucket. Not to mention that many of those stamps have multiple forgeries. The listing is basically a simplified index of the World Forgery Catalog by Kock, which itself is a listing of worldwide forgeries compiled from several dozen forgery compilations. While the catalog is not illustrated, it does provide Michel/Scott catalog numbers, which is not present in the online simplified listing nor in most of the forgery compilation sources he used. The catalog is downloadable from the same webpage as provided by Beryllium Guy -- but it doesn't tell you how to identify the forgery. But remember, even that list is not comprehensive. There are many forgeries/counterfeits that never make it into the printed resources, and many new ones being produced even today.
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,659
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 22, 2021 16:45:41 GMT
Point taken, Kim ( khj)! I have revised the editorial comment in my previous post. I should have known better than to have made it in the first place!
|
|
|
Post by classicalstamps on Apr 22, 2021 17:46:12 GMT
Such thing does not exist.
Two things that primarily drive price upwards: made by famous forgers like Sperati, or specialised collections with multiple forgeries of the same base stamp.
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,659
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 22, 2021 21:57:57 GMT
Just out of curiosity, Terri ( philatelia), why are you interested in catalogue values for forgeries? Is it because you have some forgeries that you would like to sell, so you want to get an idea of their value? Or are you thinking of buying some forgeries for your own collection? Something to do with Venezuela? Enquiring minds would love to know....
|
|
philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,408
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
|
Post by philatelia on Apr 22, 2021 22:43:48 GMT
Beryllium Guy - I see energetic bidding on forgeries in various auctions and I wonder if the forgeries are that much in demand or if the bidders don’t understand that they are bidding on forgeries. But, even clearly labeled forgeries sell. Of course, many specialists seek them to use as reference material. When I’m starting to study a new area that is rife with forgeries, I, too, like to purchase forgeries for reference copies but it would be helpful to have a ballpark estimate of what is a reasonable retail price to pay. So, briefly, these do have market value which leads me to ask the question if anyone has attempted to quantify their values in a list or a catalog.
And - the main reason? Curiosity! Just wondering .
|
|
Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,659
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
|
Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 23, 2021 11:55:21 GMT
Thanks for your response, Terri ( philatelia). That answers my question! I have noted, for example, that there are often forgeries of COGH triangles being offered online, especially on eBay and Delcampe. Some are identified by the sellers as forgeries, and some are not. But the perception of market value seems to vary widely. In some cases, the stamps listed as forgeries are offered quite inexpensively: a dollar or two each. But in at least a couple of cases, sellers have cited certain forgeries as being rare, and have been asking $40-60 per stamp. Personally, with inspiration and help from Morten ( classicalstamps), I have been able to collect references and images from online sources that have made it possible for me to identify COGH triangle forgeries without needing to buy any of them. I wrote about this in the last TSF Newsletter. There is so much free info available online nowadays, that I have felt it unnecessary to invest in forgeries as references. I find the digital images easier to study, as magnification of a high-resolution image is easy on a computer. Before I figured this out, I bought some forgeries of Danzig overprints, which I now regret. I am not planning to knowingly buy any more.
|
|
drblade
Member
Posts: 726
What I collect: GB Unmounted mint & Machin definitives Q.E.II Used commemoratives
|
Post by drblade on Dec 2, 2021 10:26:27 GMT
Some classic forgeries are quite collectible and have value, yes? But does anyone know of a source for pricing these? A complete, concise, clearly illustrated forgeries and reprints catalog would be invaluable. Hi philatelia, I've added a link to (what I consider an interesting site) ref International Security Printers. Although NOT an extensive pricing list/catalogue of forgeries, quite a few are mentioned. Lots of other links with good research. Mainly British Commonwealth. golowesstamps.com/reference/formatprinters/Modern%20Fake%20Stamps/modern_fake_stamps.htm
|
|