sudbury12000
Member 
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Mar 9, 2022 13:49:32 GMT
 Good Day everyone, came across this in a collection I recently purchased and wondered what everyone thought of it? |
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salentin
Member
collecting Germany,where I live and about 20 more countries,half of them in Asia east of the Indus
Posts: 5,631 
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Post by salentin on Mar 9, 2022 14:39:32 GMT
Looks very interesting to me.
I have lived for a while in County Sligo in Ireland. Perhaps some propaganda label for Irish independence ?
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Mar 9, 2022 16:24:46 GMT
Interesting indeed. It steals the design of British Colonial stamps from CYPRUS (SG11) GIBRALTAR (SG12), NEVIS and St LUCIA from the De La Rue range of the 1880s (though none has a FOUR PENCE Carmine) With the Queen's head however salentin I don't see it as advocating "Independence" . I suspect someone in Sligo with time on his hands or a local printer has been having a bit of Philatelic fun.. Clever ! |
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Post by daniel on Mar 9, 2022 17:26:12 GMT
I agree with Alex vikingeck, based on the De La Rue Victorian Key Type. This particular version, somewhat crudely printed, has faux perforations. At some point it has been properly perforated but outside of the faux perforations. Not a forgery as such but appears to have been cancelled at some point indicating that it may have passed through the mail. A nice item but probably not valuable. Daniel |
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Mar 9, 2022 22:11:45 GMT
I forgot to mention, there is no watermark. I have seen some cinderellas on the web for sale and discussion, but I have never seen this. salentin, I know Sligo, and since it is in the north it may be a more patriotic label as many counties were in the discussion of partition, but much later than HM Victoria's regency. And I agree with Daniel, interesting. I guess I should put it on my Empire Cancellations in Ireland page(RoI). |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Mar 9, 2022 23:11:07 GMT
It exists in the exact same crude reproduction with "IRELAND" at top and in brown color.
Gerald King made fantasy stamps using the same basic Queen Victoria design, but not as crude, for Lundy Island. That stamp is dark blue, with "LUNDY ISLAND" lettering in bright blue. But I do not know who made the "SLIGO." and "IRELAND" fantasy stamps.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Mar 9, 2022 23:15:06 GMT
 I do not know who made this fantasy stamp. |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Mar 9, 2022 23:19:41 GMT
Here is the fantasy stamp made by Gerald King. As you can see, it is more like the original stamp design. The above fantasy stamp for SLIGO & IRELAND look more like they were made from some illustrated album page reproduction and then colorized.  |
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Post by daniel on Mar 9, 2022 23:57:19 GMT
It exists in the exact same crude reproduction with "IRELAND" at top and in brown color. Gerald King made fantasy stamps using the same basic Queen Victoria design, but not as crude, for Lundy Island. That stamp is dark blue, with "LUNDY ISLAND" lettering in bright blue. But I do not know who made the "SLIGO." and "IRELAND" fantasy stamps. It is listed and shown on Evert Klaseboer: Stamps of the World website but simply states the obvious, Bogus issue. But also states that "was apparently made by the same forger who made (similar) forgeries of Antigua". These were also Victorian Key Type stamps. |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Mar 10, 2022 0:18:42 GMT
OK, thanks daniel , that was useful. I looked at the Taylor forgery of the Antigua stamp and it has the same breaks/unevenness in the frame lines, as well as the simulated perforations on the side. I don't have a list of all the forgeries Taylor made, but I'm pretty sure the SLIGO & IRELAND were not made by Taylor as the font is noticeably different. But the creator of the SLIGO & IRELAND fantasy stamps probably used Taylor's forgery as base design, or used the same reproduction source as Taylor.  |
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Post by daniel on Mar 10, 2022 2:30:09 GMT
Thanks khj , this just gets better and better. How did you make the Taylor connection? The fact that sudbury12000 's stamp has a similar anonymous cancellation suggests that maybe it is from the same source. S Allan Taylor famously (or infamously) produced the stamps that the Republic of Ireland reproduced on their Centenary of Fenian Rising postage stamps, SG 235 and 236 issued in 1967. So, he has form with bogus Irish stamps. I'm thinking now that it might well be a Taylor stamp with some value. |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Mar 10, 2022 3:02:01 GMT
How did you make the Taylor connection? When you mentioned the Antigua forgery, I took a quick look, and lo and behold the Antigua forgery is labeled as... (scroll down about 2/3 or do webpage search for "1882. QUEEN VICTORIA. 4 PENCE") Antigua Forgeries on StampForgeriesBut since the font used in the SLIGO & IRELAND fantasy stamp is noticeably different, I doubt it was Taylor but someone mimicking/pilfering the forgery he made.  k |
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Mar 10, 2022 21:27:10 GMT
I have a comment, if I may: this is why I love this discussion group. Not only are the participants well versed, they are not condescending with their knowledge. Clearly I am a novice collector, but I do love to hear about stamps, the history of it, and all your opinions. thank you all so much, cheers. Still not sure what to do with this fantasy.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,269
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Mar 10, 2022 22:27:38 GMT
One of the reasons the head of Victoria was used on the early British and colonies stamps was to counter forgery. We are programmed to recognise faces. The exact likeness is difficult to achieve and The forger never gets the facial expression quite right until computer reproduction caught up with art.
The Gerald King repro for Lundy is a true scanned image of one of the original De La Rue stamps . By comparison the various fake Antigua and spoof Ireland & Sligo wears a grim sulky expression , the nose and mouth just that little bit off!
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Post by daniel on Mar 11, 2022 0:37:08 GMT
From khj 's Antigua Forgeries link scroll down to 1882 Queen Victoria Half Penny and we see yet another similar style forgery but credited to Torres. Now scroll up to 1863 Queen Victoria One Penny and we see a black and white Illustration by Plácido Ramón de Torres from his Illustrated album of postage stamps, Barcelona 1879. Further, it states that he 'sold illustrations to various dealers/forgers from 1864 onwards, as well as made forgeries himself '. So, it appears that we have our source. Further examples of his work can be found under Newfoundland here and you will see that his illustrations include the perforations where applicable. |
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on Mar 11, 2022 1:02:44 GMT
Thanks for digging in deeper, daniel! I get too distracted easily and don't always walk down to the end of the trail! I had guessed early on that it might have been taken from an early illustrated album page. Now we know the album page illustrator was Torres, and he was likely the original design source of the reproduction. |
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Jan 24, 2024 16:59:54 GMT
Adding this thread, some Antigua forgeries. One already shown, but here it the ha'penny. Interesting WM.   |
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