gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 9, 2022 18:04:37 GMT
Hi, need a second opinion on this SG 187 Half D slate blue. It would appear to be missing a watermark. I've a SG 164 (edit) in deep green and pale green next to it for comparison. I've had a good look at it and can't find any evidence of a watermark, or a SG listing for a 187 missing a watermark. What do you think?   |
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Post by paul1 on Aug 9, 2022 19:27:28 GMT
I could be very wrong, but there are apparently earlier versions - see SG 164 which is also their No. 52 - where it is known for the wmk. to be missing, but the colour on that isn't slate. Could it be that this one has been adulterated and experienced a colour change, and was originally green? However, this one does look to be slate - so really not sure and regret unable to help with anything positive. Shame about the missing portion.
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 9, 2022 19:42:21 GMT
I meant 164 not 167 😏. Thanks paul, that's what I was looking at but def no listing for slate 164.
Yeah, the corner damage is a damn shame.
Also, the postmark is dated 1898 so I think it's most likely a 187 slate.
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 9, 2022 19:53:50 GMT
Looking closer at the top torn corner, it seems to me there may still be backing paper adhering which could hide a watermark . I think you should try soaking .
If I am right the excess paper will float off revealing a watermark. If I am wrong there will be no harm done .
Incidentally the stamp is the slate SG187 and there are no colour changelings
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tobben63
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Post by tobben63 on Aug 9, 2022 19:58:52 GMT
Also, the postmark is dated 1898 so I think it's most likely a 187 slate. The postmark is 18 86 |
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 9, 2022 20:07:04 GMT
Also, the postmark is dated 1898 so I think it's most likely a 187 slate. The postmark is 18 86Of course. 👍 |
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 9, 2022 20:07:51 GMT
Looking closer at the top torn corner, it seems to me there may still be backing paper adhering which could hide a watermark . I think you should try soaking . If I am right the excess paper will float off revealing a watermark. If I am wrong there will be no harm done . Incidentally the stamp is the slate SG187 and there are no colour changelings Well, I shall give that a go and see what happens. OK, follow up. No backing paper. Just gum.  |
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 9, 2022 20:30:27 GMT
I'm not yet convinced , how long did you soak ? The shiny specks are distracting .
Stubborn adhesions may need half an hour or more . Then I'd gently stroke the back, starting at a corner, with a knife or spatula to make sure I had removed any crud.
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Post by paul1 on Aug 9, 2022 20:35:35 GMT
I'd assumed that the shiny specks were a form of crystalized adhesive ?? Which method is being used here to detect wmks.?
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 9, 2022 20:37:29 GMT
I'm not yet convinced , how long did you soak ? The shiny specks are distracting . Stubborn adhesions may need half an hour or more . Then I'd gently stroke the back, starting at a corner, with a knife or spatula to make sure I had removed any crud. OK, I think I can see the wmk now. Held it up to the light and think it's under the postmark. You're possibly right that there's still something on the back which is maybe why it wasn't visible like the other two. Ah well, hundreds more stamps to sift through 👍 😁 And yes the shiny specks was just adhesive that resoftened. |
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tomiseksj
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Post by tomiseksj on Aug 9, 2022 20:39:10 GMT
I see what appears to be a portion of a crown watermark, albeit very faint.  |
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 9, 2022 20:57:39 GMT
The best I can manage. Lower right corner. Pretty sure that's the wmk.   |
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 13, 2022 13:20:23 GMT
Dear gotstamps85, if you are satisfied it is not a rarity after all, then we must be concerned about the serious damage. In that condition it is not worthy of a place in a collection. It is a dead stamp, even as a space filler it distresses me. So if you promise to remove it and chuck it in the bin I will send you FREE this better copy ... .......But you must promise to destroy the torn stamp in the interests of philately, thereby removing it from circulation and making the better copy rarer and more valuable   Send me PM with your mailing address if you agree to my offer and conditions!  Regards Alex |
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JeffS
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Post by JeffS on Aug 13, 2022 14:38:22 GMT
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 15, 2022 10:00:40 GMT
Dear gotstamps85 , if you are satisfied it is not a rarity after all, then we must be concerned about the serious damage. In that condition it is not worthy of a place in a collection. It is a dead stamp, even as a space filler it distresses me. So if you promise to remove it and chuck it in the bin I will send you FREE this better copy ... .......But you must promise to destroy the torn stamp in the interests of philately, thereby removing it from circulation and making the better copy rarer and more valuable Send me PM with your mailing address if you agree to my offer and conditions! Regards Alex I will accept your offer, after I verify what I believe to be the watermark is indeed the watermark. I'd hate to be wrong about this and destroy it  I have had a go at manipulating the photo in Gimp but nothing has worked. So, I'm going to try a couple more things to get a clearer view of the watermark. Once I have confirmed the watermark is present, I will PM you my address, then post a proof of destruction of this stamp.  |
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 15, 2022 10:25:51 GMT
Have you tried wetting the stamp face down on a black surface ? that is usually more than enough for the imperial crown watermark.
Holding up to the light and squinting at a curled stamp seldom works well.
I fear your wishful thinking is leading you to flog a dead horse!
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 15, 2022 10:45:14 GMT
Have you tried wetting the stamp face down on a black surface ? that is usually more than enough for the imperial crown watermark. Holding up to the light and squinting at a curled stamp seldom works well. I fear your wishful thinking is leading you to flog a dead horse! I'm pretty sure I did, but I'm going to have another look at it tonight. As I don't have the funds right now to buy £100 plus detector, I may try one of these.. Watermark detrctor |
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 16, 2022 7:58:28 GMT
Ok, I looked at this stamp again last night while I was stamping last night. I am 100% certain it does have the watermark. For some reason, it's been a tricky one to see. The postmark position doesn't help, and soaking the stamp actually made it impossible to view. I could only view it by passing light through the stamp. So, vikingeck, I will PM my address to you and I will destroy this damaged stamp as per the terms of your offer.  |
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 19, 2022 20:03:05 GMT
OK.. Deal complete.. Feels wrong to deliberately destroy a stamp, even a bum one.. But I have fulfilled my end of the deal vikingeck  |
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I have had a go at manipulating the photo in Gimp but nothing has worked. So, I'm going to try a couple more things to get a clearer view of the watermark.
