stainlessb
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Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 31, 2022 22:15:10 GMT
Worked on tidying up and completing a few pages. Good thing as these arrived today. The 2nd page is largely lacquer barred stamps
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hdm1950
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Posts: 1,886
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Dec 31, 2022 23:03:41 GMT
Worked on tidying up and completing a few pages. Good thing as these arrived today. The 2nd page is largely lacquer barred stamps stainlessb You had me intrigued with lacquer barred stamps so I looked in my Scott catalogue. I have lots of early Austria but had not chased the varieties. Scott calls them varnish bars so now I must take a look. Will they jump out at me?
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stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 31, 2022 23:09:42 GMT
hdm1950 sometimes they are really easy to spot, but often you need to view the stamp angled to the light. The are diagonal, seems typically there are three(3) and were intended to deter reuse of the stamps (make the obliteration hard to remove). I'm not sure if they didn't work that well, but they didn't last all that long. They will also often be a bit more visible when soaking/wet.
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,886
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Dec 31, 2022 23:38:32 GMT
hdm1950 sometimes they are really easy to spot, but often you need to view the stamp angled to the light. The are diagonal, seems typically there are three(3) and were intended to deter reuse of the stamps (make the obliteration hard to remove). I'm not sure if they didn't work that well, but they didn't last all that long. They will also often be a bit more visible when soaking/wet. Thanks Stan stainlessb. Under a bright light I instantly found a couple. If you look close I was even able to capture a bar on the 60 helller under the chin. These are much easier to find than imaginary US stamp varieties.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 31, 2022 23:41:32 GMT
also quite the challenge to photograph!
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,886
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Dec 31, 2022 23:50:06 GMT
hdm1950 sometimes they are really easy to spot, but often you need to view the stamp angled to the light. The are diagonal, seems typically there are three(3) and were intended to deter reuse of the stamps (make the obliteration hard to remove). I'm not sure if they didn't work that well, but they didn't last all that long. They will also often be a bit more visible when soaking/wet. You will notice on my photo that the cancel is actually fainter over the lacquer/varnish bar which makes sense. The raw paper would absorb more ink.
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cjoprey
Member
Scanning stamps for my website...
Posts: 1,504
What I collect: Belgium (predominantly), British Commonwealth (older ones), WW (whatever comes my way...)
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Post by cjoprey on Dec 31, 2022 23:57:29 GMT
According to Scott, Austria #79 only exists with varnish bars, so is a good example to validate against. My copy has very clear ink loss where the varnish is: Austria, Scott #79, 1901:
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 2, 2023 18:28:51 GMT
New thread created from posts on this subject in the Whatcha thread.
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cjoprey
Member
Scanning stamps for my website...
Posts: 1,504
What I collect: Belgium (predominantly), British Commonwealth (older ones), WW (whatever comes my way...)
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Post by cjoprey on Jan 2, 2023 18:46:16 GMT
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 2, 2023 19:27:29 GMT
From the lot shown on stock pages- these are all with lacquer/shellac/varnish bars. I tried skew the color settings to see if I could get the bars to better show with not much luck. Top rw 1st, 3rd & 4th 5 Heller show traces of the bars, 2nd row left-most 20 heller, 3rd row 25 heller between the two 35 hellers, and the far right 5 heller, print color value.. Now to sort by perfs. and soak the other page ( needed a break from the "scrolls". which interestingly were 1 and 2 Guilden.
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 18, 2023 17:49:39 GMT
Here's some experimenting with my scanner (Epson V600 ) using the backlit/transparancy function. This was prompted by a thread started by exwhyzed about detecting watermarks. In htis case I selected an early Austrian stamp with lacquer bars, and as those who collect Austria know, sometimes identifying whether a stamp does or does not have a lacquer bar is a challenge to angle the light (and squint alot) Here are two backlit scans, top can is color negative- next is B/W negative you can see the diagonal lacquer bars which under normal light this was initially a 'hinted guess' because of the single line area- cheek to lower left corner that appears more 'purple'-". The hair threads also show up nicely!
and here's the scan under normal settings
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 18, 2023 21:55:05 GMT
Here's a group of 4 normal scan, bottom left is obvious here's back-lit as color negative. All 4 show lacquer barsm though top right is the faintest Seems a viable tool. I played with the color mix and cutting the blue almost out helped a little, but not enough (based on a small test group) to set color settings to that. The default seems good enough
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 18, 2023 22:41:09 GMT
Another batch- all 4 have lacquer bars, but hinge (left side, bottom more apparent)and envelope remnants (top right). the other two do not show up all that well and for these 2 I relied on the squint at an angle method!
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 22, 2023 10:15:31 GMT
stainlessb these are great scans! Another tweak you can try is after you scan, go into the "Channels" tab and you can use the "eyeballs" to turn on only 1 channel at a time, R, G, or B. And then apply your processing and see if what you're looking for shows up more. You can also convert the image to CMYK, and then go to the channels tab and turn on one at a time like before. Here's how to convert to CMYKHere's where the channels tab is usually located
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 22, 2023 15:32:05 GMT
exwhyzed is that Photoshop? I haven't moved anything from the scanner. I can switch color settings fairly easy within VueSca, and unless there's a real need, I'd likely avoid additional steps. This seems (so far) to be adequate. And I have now gone through my Austria stamps which may/may not have lacquer bars so I am out of these (for the moment...) I have noticed that the rendering of the backlit images takes much longer than a 'normal' scan, which if pulling into PhotoShop or Gimp would make it a bit of a lengthy process. Thanks for tip! I'll keep it in my back pocket
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rod222
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 1, 2023 1:33:58 GMT
Early Austrian stamps are also problematic, and my suspicion is the hard-as-'heck"-gum-to-remove, must absrb moiture at a higher rate than th eprinted side (shear speculation on my part) Ah Yes, early Austria, I agree.
Just be careful when soaking ! Some have diagonal varnish stripes, that wash away in water.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 1, 2023 14:12:32 GMT
I have not noticed any of the lacquer/varnish barded issues to suffer from soaking (and because of the many perforation varieties, I have a great of them as i search for the missing ones). I have also found 'backlighting" on the scanner (for film negative and slides) useful for identifying those stamps where the lacquer bar is not readily visible.
I have tried the pancreatin enymes to remove the gum on the early Austrian stamps, but so far no luck (there are quite a few different enzymes that are in this category so maybe I haven'y tried the correct on yet.
I keep a pile of 'culls" to subject to saoking regimes to see how they do.
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rod222
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Posts: 11,043
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 1, 2023 19:51:12 GMT
Here are just a couple of Varnish bar issues, I have come across.
Bear in mind, I am a worldwide collector, and in my "swaps" with colleagues my request, always is, "I'll take anything and everything, ripped, torn, abused, ephemera, and what have you"
So inevitably I get stamps subject to poor husbandry, such as these, that have been probably soaked in Hot Water.But they serve a purpose, to indicate what can happen.Author : Unknown
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 1, 2023 20:30:58 GMT
rod222 and stainlessbI moved your posts from the thread on preventing/fixing curling of stamps to this thread about Austria issues with varnish bars, which I think is a better fit. Please feel free to carry on the discussion.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Nov 1, 2023 21:53:53 GMT
Interesting. I had never given a great deal of thought as to how the laquer bars were applied. I found the following HEREExperiments were begun using sheets of 1890, 1891, and 1899 issues. The State Printing Works applied to the sheets stripes (aka bars) of varnish (aka enamel) running from top left to bottom right at an angle of 45 degrees; the stripes were 3½mm wide with 3½mm spaces between, giving part of 4 or 5 stripes per stamp, the stripes being printed over the existing design. The Postal Administration then took some old cancellers from their stores and experimented; they found that the cancelling ink did not 'take' on the varnish, but also failed to make much impression on the unvarnished paper. Eventually they found that if they used narrow bars and wide inter-stripe spaces, the cancellations became readable.The article "Varnish Bars and how (not) to photograph them"is an interesting read, but muddies the waters regarding when the lacquer bars were applied, and then goes on to discuss dull and shiny... which I may need to read a few more times. I looked through mine and I have only these three that look somewhat close to yours I routinely soak to remove hinges and paper remnants using warm water (~135 -140ºF from my hot water tap) with a drop or two of clear dish detergent, often followed by short rinse (also warm water) then into 3% peroxide. Depending on how many stamps in the "batch" some could remain in the initial 'bath" for up to 30-40 minutes. I will satrt removing stamps that I can see have released th ehinge or paper, then rinsed and into peroxide in smaller batches.Peroxide- I now limit to 10 minutes after the testing I recently did with Chris ( Beryllium Guy ) which seemed to indicate that little was to be gained with prolonged peroxide soaking - and longer could potentially cause some 'dulling". Now my curiosity is piqued and I will go through my culs and see how many lacquer stripes I can come up with and see if I can replicate the conditions silmilar to yours. Any idea as to whether the denominations might be the last printing applied?. it looks like maybe they suffer the most
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rod222
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Posts: 11,043
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 1, 2023 22:02:50 GMT
Have to agree, the varnish bars are ON TOP of the printed design, otherwise the stamp image would lift as well, surely?
If the author's other comments are correct, then the bars finished with the 1904 issues.
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