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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 16, 2023 20:46:02 GMT
Hi All,
As I progress with collecting stamps, I've realized that I have a growing assortment of US classics stamps and don't know the true identity of many of them.
The stampsmarter page on secret marks/paper type etc. can get me only so far. Then i'm left with a bunch of stamps where the deciding factor is the watermark...basically is it there or not.
I want to explore a non-fluid way of detecting watermarks first.
Both the Signoscope T3, and Epson V600 "backlit lid" scanner are about the same price.
I would rather the T3 option because the Epson V600 option requires many photohop steps after the initial scanning, to attempt to reveal the watermark.
Anyhow, can anyone comment on if the Signoscope T3 is effective at detecting watermarks of USA classics stamps from 1870-1898?
Also, feel free to comment on the best ways you have found revealing watermarks of this era of stamps.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 16, 2023 22:33:19 GMT
I can't comment on the T3, but I own th eEpson V600 and I had to go back to the manual and look up the backlit function and I can't see how this would be of much use for seeing watermarks? Maybe someone with knowledge can explain?!?
It looks to me from the manual the back lit function is for adjusting the lighting on photos which are darker in the focused image due to too much light from behind when the photo was taken. If there is a way to use this for watermarks it would seem handy!
What little I know about the T3, it seems to be a completely different beast from a scanner
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 16, 2023 23:11:41 GMT
I came across this method linked below. In this example, the person is using a German stamp that, from other things i've read, is from a specific period that have watermarks that are slightly easier to see. I'm not sure how well the V600 will make do with US or other countries' watermarks though. You basically have to set you V600 to scan film negatives, and then make sure you put the stamp in the area that will be backlit when you put the scanner lid down, then the scanner will automatically light the back while scanning the front. With the V600 higher quality CCD sensor capturing hidden detail, and a bit of photoshop tweaking, one might be able to reveal stamp watermarks. Here's the link |
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stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 16, 2023 23:26:22 GMT
I may play withit tomorrow. I have to remember where I put the film holder. I have photoshop and Libre (open source equivaloent, and it is pretty close)
Though at a glance seems using Clarity wou;d be quicker, thouh I don't know much about US watermarksd or how elusive they might be
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sudbury12000
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Posts: 315
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Jan 16, 2023 23:29:46 GMT
be nice if this was just an app on a phone. They do everything else
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 16, 2023 23:51:28 GMT
stainlessbI don't think you need the film holder, you just have to place the stamp face up on the regular glass surface, but placed in the area that the film would be, if the film was in the holder. sudbury12000This would be the greatest thing ever.
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sudbury12000
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What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Jan 17, 2023 0:44:19 GMT
exwhyzed I am just the idea man, lots of smart people here to do the app!
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fedestamps
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Posts: 11 
What I collect: Worldwide used stamps
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Post by fedestamps on Jan 18, 2023 17:40:02 GMT
I have taken several photos of what can be spotted when using the device T3 to detect the watermarks of two US stamps catalogued as nº 110 (year 1895) and nº 123 (year 1898) according to Yvert et tellier. Unfortunately, I am not allowed to upload the images because I suppose I am new to the forum.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 18, 2023 18:15:01 GMT
Here is a GB Penny Red, the stamp is face down. Setting for the Epson V600 is Mode: Transparancy, Media B/W negative (which shows the watermark better than using the color setting). Thamp is face down (image towards scan. The crown watermark shows up nicely right in the middle of the stamp edit: I just noticed the plate # is easy to see. Under normal light, not the case!  Below is using Media: Slide film setting, which leaves the obliteration much darker but still shows the watermark (whiter) The settings on the scanner for color is the default. i made no other adjustments  |
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 19, 2023 0:06:14 GMT
stainlessb that is really impressive! And with no other settings? I'm going to have to get me a V600 then. If you have one, can you try a USA stamp, from between 1870-1898, that is supposed to have a double-line USPS watermark?
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 19, 2023 0:21:52 GMT
Here is my embarassing setup from last night. I cut a hole in a black piece of paper, slightly smaller than the stamp, placed the stamp face up under the hole, turned off the room lights, turned on a flashlight to provide the top lighting, and scanned. i tried different distances of the flash light. Too close and the image was blown out with all white. farthest away worked best. But no amount of photoshop tweaking yielded any results. My attempt at re-creating the Epson V600 scanner "scanning a film negative" mode, using a Canon LIDE 210, black construction paper, and a Maglite Mini flashlight, and a USA 272 stamp (at least i think it is but i can't see the watermark, so it could be another similar non-watermarked stamp).  Image that resulted  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 19, 2023 0:54:19 GMT
I will have to look- I don't actively collect US, but I should have a stamp or two in that date range. May take a day of two find them 9all US is pretty much still in b oxes)
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 19, 2023 3:22:04 GMT
fedestampsI would be very interested in seeing your images! I'm going to send you a message. Check your inbox when you get a chance!
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angore
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Post by angore on Jan 19, 2023 10:52:06 GMT
If someone will send me them, I will check for you. (grin)
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fedestamps
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What I collect: Worldwide used stamps
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Post by fedestamps on Jan 19, 2023 22:35:34 GMT
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 22, 2023 9:51:09 GMT
fedestamps , thank you for posting these images. Are we looking at a 264 on the left, and a 279 on the right? To my eyes, i think i can see the bottom of a letter "S" on the left-hand side stamp, but I can't make anything out on the right-hand side stamp. The watermarks might be more visible if the stamp hinges were removed, as they are pushing the stamp up from the surface that it is supposed to be lying flat on. Anyhow, since I am able to purchase the V600 scanner on amazon and return it (i think), but if i purchase the Signoscope T3 via ebay I won't be able to return it...i think I'll try the V600 first, and see how many of my stamps I can ID, before deciding if I should head down the T3 path. EDIT: Oh now I can see the letter "P" peeking out from the bottom of the right-hand stamp. Nice!
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fedestamps
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What I collect: Worldwide used stamps
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Post by fedestamps on Jan 23, 2023 19:22:08 GMT
In order to better visualize the watermarks I have taken the photos again but this time without hinges on the stamps. The blue backgroung image corresponds to the stamp Benjamin Franklin 1 Cent Blue year 1895 catalogued as Yvert nº 110 or scott 264 and the other image corresponds to the stamp Benjamin Franklin 1 Cent Green year 1898 catalogued as Yvert nº 123 (year 1898) or scott 279. Lorenzo   |
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Post by exwhyzed on Jan 24, 2023 17:26:32 GMT
fedestamps wow this is really outstanding, the watermarks are super visible now that you've removed the hinges. With this type of watermark detection ability available...and since I have about a hundred stamps to look at...now i might jump straight to the Signoscope T3!
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rex
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Post by rex on Jan 24, 2023 20:55:21 GMT
I am a happy owner of the signoscope and a staunch supporter.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jan 24, 2023 21:14:47 GMT
I found several Franklins, on one I can make out part of the "P" ( I think) but the other two I can't see any trace of a watermark, and what little of the "P" stood out, it is no contest against the T3
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tomiseksj
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What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Jan 24, 2023 22:11:12 GMT
My experience (fluid only, no high-tech) has been that the double line watermarks are far easier to find than are the single line ones.
A follow-on question would be "How effective is the Signoscope in detecting single line watermarks on papers used beginning in late 1910?"
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fedestamps
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What I collect: Worldwide used stamps
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Post by fedestamps on Jan 25, 2023 17:50:08 GMT
As Steve has anticipated, the USPS single line watermarks of the two stamps 1913 Panama-Pacific Exposition, 1 cent Balboa (Scott 397 A) and 2 cents Panama Canal (Scott 398 A), are more difficult to find as can be observed in the following images taken when using the signoscope T3 to detect them. The one with white background corresponds to the 1 cent Balboa. In this photo can be spotted not only a letter U almost complete ( South East corner of the stamp) but also a small upper part of the letter S ( left side of the stamp). The image with blue background corresponds to the 2 cents Panama Canal. In this photo can be spotted not only a letter S almost complete ( South East corner of the stamp) but also a small upper part of the letter P ( left side of the stamp). Lorenzo    |
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