bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 7, 2023 10:12:39 GMT
There are a lot of forgeries of the Mérode stamps of Belgium. Unfortunately... In fact, I see them more often online being sold or even on stamp exhibitions... These three stamps look alike don't they? There is only one real stamp here... Can you spot the real one?
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 7, 2023 10:20:07 GMT
Well,
I'm gonna spill the beans here, the left one is the only real one...
The other two are two different types of forgeries. A so called easy forgery and a dangerous forgery...
The middle one is the easiest to spot, even by naked eye, the right one, you'll need a magnifying glass...
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 7, 2023 10:33:26 GMT
Let's go: The real one's allways have an open Q! of Belgique... The easy forgery doesn't have an open Q! Easy enough to spot with the naked eye! The dangerous forgery does have an open Q. There you need to look for other things. REAL EASY FAKE Both forgeries have difficulties with the grid at the bottom of the stamp, right above BELGIE... The grid is not (very) visible while in the real stamp, it clearly is! REAL FAKE (both easy and dangerous and all three values although it is less obvious with the dangerous forgery)
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 7, 2023 10:55:07 GMT
On with the dangerous forgery then, as it is easy to spot the other one! For the green 5c Mérodes: => REAL one has minced 5 => EASY FAKE one has nice full 5 => DANGEROUS FAKE has an even more minced 5 at top, with naked eye, it looks detached! --- Also => DANGEROUS FAKE one: There is no half circle line in sphere above right where in the real stamp, there clearly is!
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 7, 2023 11:30:42 GMT
And for the next two values in the dangerous category: 10 c red: In the curl above the L of BELGIQUE the half circle is not interrupted in the real stamp. Clearly interrupted in the dangerous fake. =REAL one =FAKE one As for the right top side: The 0 has lines and dots in the real one, not in the dangerous fake. Also the half circle in the upper right dot is clear in the real, incomplete in the fake... =REAL one =FAKE one
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 7, 2023 11:37:50 GMT
The 20 cent violet one is the hardest to distinguish... in the dangerous forgery that is Best thing to look at here is a duller color (you will have to compare to a real stamp), a shinier gum (if unused) and the following: first one = real, second = fake There's a dot in the real stamp's 0 (in the '20') and none in the fake. Same counts for the other side: first one = real, second = fake That concludes this topic... Oh, and there are undentilated ones, mostly fakes as well
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Post by gstamps on Mar 7, 2023 13:17:13 GMT
Hi bjornbelgiumThanks for this post. As a beginner collector, I had many difficulties in identifying my stamps: forgery and genuine ? Over time, I managed to recognize the types of printing, the types of perforation, the paper, elements that generally distinguished forged stamps from genuine ones. What seems strange to me about the three 5 stamps is that they have the same comb perforation, all lithographed, and the paper appears to be the same type. The differences in drawing are the last element that helps me in identification, and this is provided that I have the stamp in front of my eyes. On the printing stone (?), I think there are small differences in the drawing from one position to another (I mean the genuine stamps) How did you come to the conclusion that the stamps are forgeries? They are private prints made on the original plates? (I think Moens was the name of the person who practiced this)
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hdm1950
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Posts: 1,603
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Mar 7, 2023 16:25:13 GMT
Thanks bjornbelgium for your detailed description of this series of stamps. After reading the posts of course I had to check mine out and no surprise, all 3 of mine are forgeries. Scott states that forgeries abound. The good news is that I was not duped. Most of my world wide stamps have come from old collections bought at very reasonable prices so I did not go out and buy many individual stamps or sets. My Belgium collection has probably around 1000 stamps and I stop at 1965 with lots of the classics but I doubt there is any great value. I feel confident that I have 100’s if not 1000’s of forgeries in my world wide collection.
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 8, 2023 8:57:38 GMT
Thanks bjornbelgium for your detailed description of this series of stamps. After reading the posts of course I had to check mine out and no surprise, all 3 of mine are forgeries. Scott states that forgeries abound. The good news is that I was not duped. Most of my world wide stamps have come from old collections bought at very reasonable prices so I did not go out and buy many individual stamps or sets. My Belgium collection has probably around 1000 stamps and I stop at 1965 with lots of the classics but I doubt there is any great value. I feel confident that I have 100’s if not 1000’s of forgeries in my world wide collection. As do we all unfortunately, there are some good sites out there that describe forgeries, but I myself haven't had much time yet to elaborately look for forgeries myself... The real Mérodes are surprisingly difficult to come by a set of three. I once pointed out to a 'dealer' on an exhibition, that his set was not real... he was not amused... he was very defensive about it
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
Posts: 68
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 8, 2023 9:08:03 GMT
Hi bjornbelgium Thanks for this post. As a beginner collector, I had many difficulties in identifying my stamps: forgery and genuine ? Over time, I managed to recognize the types of printing, the types of perforation, the paper, elements that generally distinguished forged stamps from genuine ones. What seems strange to me about the three 5 stamps is that they have the same comb perforation, all lithographed, and the paper appears to be the same type. The differences in drawing are the last element that helps me in identification, and this is provided that I have the stamp in front of my eyes. On the printing stone (?), I think there are small differences in the drawing from one position to another (I mean the genuine stamps) How did you come to the conclusion that the stamps are forgeries? They are private prints made on the original plates? (I think Moens was the name of the person who practiced this) I think by that time (era), perforations were not that much of an issue anymore, nor was paper. Although you can clearly see a difference in paperstructure on the foto's of the 20c!... Also, it was war soon after and forging stamps payed off I guess... I have no idea however when they were produced but I can imagine, even after the war, it would have been lucrative to fake them. If they were later issues (this issue was no longer used by 1920), the reason for forging would have been the low printing quantities of 150.000 and 50.000 for the 20c. At the same time of these, there were also three smaller ones produced with the head of Albert I, they were equally forged and also with the Q being an O... Don't know very much of the printing processes back in 1914 and how it was exactly done, but I think it had allready evolved into metal plates (just still using the lithographic process??) They made a negative die first, transferred a positive image onto a roll die and than retransferred (pressed) that via the roll onto rows on a big metal plate so again you had a negative image right?
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Post by michael on Mar 8, 2023 9:49:00 GMT
Great thread, it's very useful to show real and forgeries next to each other. Whilst individual characteristics as you have shown can be used to distinguished the real and forgery, they can also be detected from a hi-resolution view. If you click on the image in the 1st post and view the image in the resolution that you uploaded it, then it is immediately clear the centre one is a forgery and then if you compare the left with the right you should be able to see the much clearer lines of the real stamp on the left.
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
Posts: 68
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 8, 2023 9:57:05 GMT
Great thread, it's very useful to show real and forgeries next to each other. Whilst individual characteristics as you have shown can be used to distinguished the real and forgery, they can also be detected from a hi-resolution view. If you click on the image in the 1st post and view the image in the resolution that you uploaded it, then it is immediately clear the centre one is a forgery and then if you compare the left with the right you should be able to see the much clearer lines of the real stamp on the left. Something I didn't mention indeed is the fact that the real stamps are much finer in their engravings, the forgeries (all of them) are much more vague and erratic. There's lots of other features that I left out, some of the curls are totally different on the easy fake but it's not mentioned here since the Q being an O stands out so much, you really don't need to look further... When you have only one or two copies, and not sure whether real of fake, it's best to look at the certain features. If you have a set that you know is real for sure, it is indeed possible to look for difference in engraving as well, as it will show instantly There are also differences in the red crosses, often they will have white spots or lines, while in the real ones, they are cleaner, crisper anf have straighter edges... but that is perhaps a more difficult feature to look for.
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Post by gstamps on Mar 8, 2023 16:22:01 GMT
Hi bjornbelgiumI checked in the Michel catalog (I couldn't find it in Scott) and the printing method is lithography (Stdr=Steindruck) and not engraving. There is also a private printing mentioned. Does anyone know more? Were the original plates used? Are some forgeries (with open Q) actually "private printing"?
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stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Mar 8, 2023 17:07:06 GMT
Nice thread! Here's a whole sheet of forgeries!
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Post by biglavalamp on Mar 8, 2023 19:51:06 GMT
Great thread
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
Posts: 68
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 9, 2023 14:26:41 GMT
Hi bjornbelgium I checked in the Michel catalog (I couldn't find it in Scott) and the printing method is lithography (Stdr=Steindruck) and not engraving. There is also a private printing mentioned. Does anyone know more? Were the original plates used? Are some forgeries (with open Q) actually "private printing"? One of the best features I think is the raster just above BELGIE. If it were reprints of the same original plates, they would have gotten this right too I think... As for the Steindruck, I thought that it was the 'procedure' rather than flatprinting off of an actual stone plate? Wouldn't that have been very hard to get all the engravings right every time? I find it very interesting to learn more about the different printing techniques and how they evolved through time... They might have been stone plates right in the beginning (1840's) but not sure that they didn't better the technique by the 1900's allready... Anyone can recommend a good book about this?
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
Posts: 68
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 9, 2023 14:53:39 GMT
Just found the following on a website of the mérode stamps: Between March 1915 and October 1916, printer Verschueren produced huge quantities of counterfeit stamps, rightfully called forgeries, because they were not made with the original printing stones. source: postzegelsdemerode.be/nl/index.html#vervalsingen
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Post by gstamps on Mar 9, 2023 17:01:59 GMT
Hi bjornbelgiumThanks for the address of this interesting site. The Dutch translation is much more understandable than the German. Congratulations on your full membership.
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Post by michael on Mar 10, 2023 11:28:22 GMT
Editted because I misread a previous post . For information Scott says that 90% are counterfeit.
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Post by gstamps on Mar 10, 2023 15:26:13 GMT
Hi michaelI did not find the printing method in Scott. If you look in Michel you will notice more information (perforation K14, 3 panel 5x5 in sheet) - it is Scott's style not to provide this information that helps identification.
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bjornbelgium
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Stamps are little papers of joy!
Posts: 68
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Post by bjornbelgium on Mar 17, 2023 7:55:10 GMT
Editted because I misread a previous post . For information Scott says that 90% are counterfeit. Prices for MNH are much more in the Belgian COB catalog... the prices for used are similar...
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