sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 360
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Apr 7, 2023 17:42:33 GMT
Greetings, I am looking at this stamp. It is supposed to be a colour variety "indigo and black". I am bidding on it now, as I do not have nicely cancelled SC#112, so I am bidding for that value. I have to be honest, this stamp looks "blue" to me. And thoughts and or comments are most welcome. Also, if I win the auction I will post the back of the stamps too. But this is all that is offered on the auction page.
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Apr 7, 2023 17:55:01 GMT
Greetings, I am looking at this stamp. It is supposed to be a colour variety "indigo and black". I am bidding on it now, as I do not have nicely cancelled SC#112, so I am bidding for that value. I have to be honest, this stamp looks "blue" to me. And thoughts and or comments are most welcome. Also, if I win the auction I will post the back of the stamps too. But this is all that is offered on the auction page. You might look online for color comparisons
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 360
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Apr 7, 2023 18:12:13 GMT
JeffS I have done that and really cannot tell the difference, was looking for an opinion. Not holding anyone to it either but you and others on this forum are much more experienced at colour coding than I. One thing I did notice was the paper on the 112 seems to be more toned that the examples of the 112a but this may just be coincidence.
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Apr 7, 2023 18:21:54 GMT
Based on the color I see and SG colour keys, it looks ultramarine, not indigo ......2 very different colors
René
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 7, 2023 18:29:19 GMT
not sure how helpful, but I grabbed a screen shot from your image Bear in mind that a screen shot is very low resolution. Also, "Indigo" does not seem to be a universally agreed upon name for a specific color tone Below are colors labeled in philatelic color guides (M = Michel, SG= Stanly Gibbons earlier printing, SG2= Stanley Gibbons, most recent printing. All scanned on same scanner, same resolution, same settings , and added into PERFOMASTER colortable and now Indigo Hex # 4B0082
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Post by michael on Apr 7, 2023 18:32:56 GMT
This stamp is catalogued by Stanley Gibbons used at £800 compared with £55 for the normal colour. If you buy this stamp anywhere other than a recognised dealer then you are going to be dissappointed.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Apr 7, 2023 19:16:35 GMT
I don't know the dealer, so this is just an opinion. But... -- the dealer scans a $1000 stamp still inside a dealer card?!? -- not only that, the card appears to be still placed into a strip on a stock page?!? Using such a pic to distinguish a minor color variety with a major premium is iffy at best. Also, note the scanner used tends toward blue and pink. Notice that even the uncovered very top part of the white card isn't evenly white. The scanner is digitizing "shadows"/unevenness as bluish and pinkish. Not sure how that affects the color appearance of the covered scanned stamp. Unless it is a trusted dealer, since the scan doesn't look like indigo, I wouldn't bid on it unless the dealer can provide a side-by-side comparison of the cheaper SG 112 alongside that SG 112A. There are several examples of British Commonwealth stamps that were printed in indigo/ultramarine varieties. Here is a typical example using the 10/- KGVI stamp of Great Britain. At left is the 1939 indigo, and at right is the 1942 ultramarine. To me, if it is a dealer trusted by me, I would bid on it based on previous history of proper ID of stamp varieties. I might question the dealer if the scan appears off. But if the trusted dealer told me it is a scanner issue, I would accept their explanation without doubt -- again, based on previous experience of correct ID of difficult stamps. Before the internet, it would not be unusual for me to buy stamps sight unseen from trusted dealers. In fact, I would say easily 75%++ of the stamps I have (in terms of both value and quantity) were purchased sight unseen. Nowadays, anybody who can sign up for an online account is a "dealer". But combined experienced & "trusted" dealers are getting harder to find. Hopefully, as the years go by, more and more of the internet dealers will get more experienced...
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Apr 7, 2023 21:32:09 GMT
As I have previously demonstrated my ineptness at identifying shades of blue (re COGH) I humbly will refrain from voicing an opinion
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Apr 7, 2023 21:41:23 GMT
I'll voice my opinion -- it just may not be correct! I'm not really good with color shades either -- especially the red or pink shades. You can put pink, rose pink, pigeon blood pink color varieties side by side, and they would all still look the same to me -- some sort of very faded red...
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 7, 2023 22:33:18 GMT
Colors are indeed difficult to 'describe', and a name means different things to different sets of eyes... The definition of indigo is deep reddish-blue (according to Merriam-Webster). SG color looks closest to the example khj posted. The stamp Barbados to my eyes looks not at all indigo, but always have to keep in mind what one person sees on their monitor is different than another, and even uploading isn't always 'true'. The variation in color samples from the philatelic references is enough of a head scratcher, and then compared to the "digital" sample..... all bets are off I agree with khj that for a stamp of this supposed high CV (I know nothing of Barbados or its stamps) I would think that the image offered by the seller would be out of the stock card, and be of just the stamp and (and maybe there is a scan) of the back as well
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Post by gstamps on Apr 8, 2023 7:26:27 GMT
In my opinion (I'm not very good at appreciating colors either) it's a shade of ultramarine (dark or blackish). From the Michel color catalog:
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 360
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Apr 8, 2023 16:19:08 GMT
I get what you are saying JeffS I have the colour chart from Gibbons and I routinely cannot tell greyish black from black. "See Penny Blacks". khj this is not from a reputable dealer. Honestly he sells $1000 stamps without proper description and then stamps like this, that are dubious at best. It is the proverbial crap shoot, so I bid accordingly. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but expectations are minimal. I did notice this online when I was researching this stamp, and I cannot believe this is indigo, and the price it realized, but my experience with colours is not reliable.
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brookbam
Member
APS 236261
Posts: 235
What I collect: US...everything until I decide what I don't want to collect! And now thanks to a TSF give-away I'm adding Space topicals!
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Post by brookbam on Apr 8, 2023 17:34:12 GMT
I'm going through that right now with an early 1900 stamp. It's a "blue" color...but it can't be a simple blue color...nope...there are like six different versions of blue to pick from. It's one of the reasons I stayed away from them as a kid in jr high with my collection because it was just too confusing. Well it hasn't gotten any easier for this old man yet. I have a search in ebay for the "Encyclopedia of the Colors of United States Postage Stamps" to see if one of those rare collections will ever pop up again.
And yes...I know what I will expect to pay... brookbam
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Apr 8, 2023 18:44:00 GMT
Strictly in the "for what it's worth" category, the Commonwealth Five Reigns catalogue (1980 ed.) says: (E24 is their number for the 2-1/2d multiple crown CA, issued July 6, 1907.)
When I want more shade ideas than I'm seeing in the standard catalogues, I check out Five Reigns. They don't give this "variety" a sub-number, or a price.
Again, strictly for what it's worth. Maybe nothing.
If you want to try to play around with the image and make out the date on the cancel, it better be before July 6th. (I think I see the "07" but I wouldn't bet money.)
ETA: "than" for "that"
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Post by gstamps on Apr 8, 2023 19:09:06 GMT
UPU Issue 1949, 3d , Scott 213 stamp has indigo color. I found it on ebay and compared it with yours:
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Post by gstamps on Apr 8, 2023 19:26:32 GMT
sudbury12000In the description of the auction lot it says: "...accompanied by the normal stamp for comparison" It is strange that only one stamp appears...and you think it is the indigo one...or maybe it is the normal one...this discrepancy between what is written and what is displayed is strange.
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Apr 8, 2023 21:36:12 GMT
Here is an RPSL certificate from 1961 for a block of four of SG162a. Note that they say it is genuine, possibly climatically affected. Here is the block, itself. Stunning, whether it's just as it came, straight from the press, or it's a victim of climate change.
[Not mine, of course.]
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 360
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Apr 11, 2023 0:45:16 GMT
I bid $14, it went for $22 USD. I am not upset. thank you all for your input.
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Apr 12, 2023 13:46:47 GMT
Thanks for closing out the story. I would have no regrets, either.
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