philatelia
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Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
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What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 15, 2023 19:52:15 GMT
YOUR OPINIONS PLEASE: I just purchased an auction lot of USA clippings. These look like clippings from mail sent by American stamp collectors. You know what I mean - lots of older issues and the odd philatelic commemorative. To have access to this quantity of philatelic mail, the seller had to have access to mail going to a philatelic group. Now guess what? This lot was mailed from near State College, the home of the American Philatelic Society. Huh, that’s a BIG coincidence, yes? BUT the awful part is this - all those collectors are putting those nice stamps on the covers and whoever is clipping them is DESTROYING THEM WITH THE SCISSORS. About half or more are cut short and are ruined. If I were the collectors mailing those I would NOT be a happy camper. I contacted the seller and told them that they should either refund half or send additional stamps to compensate. I explained that they need to educate whomever is wielding the scissors, too. But I would really like to make sure that American Philatelic Society mail isn’t being given to someone to butcher like that. This whole situation raises my hackles and all sorts of warning flags are waving. Well gang, what would you do?
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on May 15, 2023 20:14:04 GMT
If they weren't sold for crafting purposes, then that's pretty poor. Some kind of consideration seems appropriate.
If it was me, I'd rather unwind the transaction, but it probably isn't practical without getting stuck eating the postage, and, some other poor bidder would just end up with them next week.
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Mr. H
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Member - APS #129381
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What I collect: US, Netherlands, Whatever suits my fancy.
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Post by Mr. H on May 15, 2023 20:45:52 GMT
You didn't say how big the lot was. I would expect a few damaged stamps in any lot, but if I felt there were too many I would ask to return the lot as it was not as described (I assume they were supposed to be collectable). The seller may then offer a discount instead of being forced by eBay to accept the return and pay the cost of the return postage.
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Post by carabop on May 15, 2023 22:01:10 GMT
Yes they sure are clipped. I would have done just what you did but it really depends on what the description said. If not as described then as Mr. H says a refund would be in order.
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swvl
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Posts: 548
What I collect: FDCs, plus some US modern and new issues. Topical interests include music, art, literature, baseball, space...
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Post by swvl on May 16, 2023 0:12:23 GMT
I’m not sure what I’d do there, but boy is that frustrating! Just seeing those carelessly clipped stamps drives me slightly nuts.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on May 16, 2023 0:13:08 GMT
I would suggest you raise your concerns to the APS. They should know about this. If the situation is as you feared, it's up to them whether they want to do anything about it.
I was wondering if they showed a pic in that eBay listing. If so, were any damaged by clipping stamps obvious in the pic(s)? It sounded like more than 50% of the stamps were damaged. Then the pic(s) should reveal that. If all you see are mostly good on-paper stamps, then that's a good bet that the seller knew about it and was seeding the picture with quality stamps. Not accusing, but just wondering...
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on May 16, 2023 3:08:16 GMT
I had a well-intentioned aunt who always saved stamps for me when I was young and who always ran her scissors into those ugly pokey teeth things around the stamps. A member of the extended family had some reason for living in Upper Volta (now Burkina Faso) and of the few postally used copies I have from Upper Volta, virtually all of them have had a number of the teeth trimmed off by my aunt ... oh well, not so tragic since I wasn't paying for them but still, I'd prefer to see the stamps with teeth!
Ryan
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eggdog
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Posts: 464
What I collect: It's complicated....
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Post by eggdog on May 17, 2023 2:32:32 GMT
I don't see where philatelia said these were from eBay. Were they? I think it's worth reporting this to the American Philatelic Society, yes - with a photograph of the return address. If the vandal in question has nothing to do with APS, there's not a lot APS can do about it. But in many issues of the American Philatelist, the membership listings contain the names of people or companies who have been booted from APS, and that is pretty damaging to the accused's reputation. I've rarely returned philatelic purchases, but I've been pretty fortunate in not getting hatchet jobs like the ones illustrated above or lots that were misrepresented beyond credulity. I've gotten disappointments - mixtures that had less variety and/or more damaged stamps than I was led to believe - but not that couldn't withstand an interpretation that followed to the letter of the law, or whose prosecution would cost me more than what I paid for the inferior product.
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on May 17, 2023 14:45:57 GMT
Here in Uk lots of well meaning folk save stamps from their house hold mail especially around Christmas, and pass them on to charities like Oxfam etc who will bag them up into bulk lots and get some cash from dealers who trade quantities as “Kiloware” selling bags by weight , 500g 1 kg etc All too often the well meaning citizen is the culprit careless with the scissors. Oh so often I have had offerings from little old ladies in a church group passing on small accumulations in “very mixed condition “ . I weed out obvious clipped or damaged before passing the rest to Oxfam. The wholesale dealer probably doesn’t waste time weeding out the dross from the acceptable. Was philatelia’s purchase such kiloware?
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 17, 2023 15:34:24 GMT
Follow up - I decided to try and talk to the seller in a friendly way to see if I could find out what is happening. The seller is a lady who also peddles a few FDCs on EBay. She doesn’t seem to be a particularly savvy collector, maybe a beginner. She said she bought the mixes from an older man at a local stamp club. She seemed a bit surprised when I told her that the cut close were not at all collectible, but she must have asked around to confirm what I said because the next message was much more contrite and came with an offer to send some replacements. She stressed the quantity of high values in the lot, so I wonder if she bought these to cull skips. After all, damaged, trimmed skips can still be reused by those who like to pull that stunt.
The mix contained personalized labels FROM the American Philatelic Society, so that weakens the theory that there are from incoming APS mail.
All of the above is pure conjecture. I’ll wait and see if the replacement is adequate.
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Post by carabop on May 17, 2023 21:43:16 GMT
Good to see she was willing to compensate I hope she follows through and you receive worthwhile replacements.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 18, 2023 14:10:13 GMT
The plot thickens … Well this purchase is becoming more dramatic by the minute. I posted on the Counterfeit thread that I just received a notification of a package seized by the postal service because it was mailed with counterfeit postage. There was no way for me to figure out which shipper had sent the seized parcel other than process of elimination. And, guess what? The replacement lot promised for the above is the only expected shipment that is unaccounted for. The fact that the original mixture contained quite a few counterfeits lends credence to this theory. Ah, the joys of buying on EBay.
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Admin
Administrator
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Post by Admin on May 18, 2023 15:29:00 GMT
Have you asked the seller if she sent you the replacements with tracking? If so, and if the number matches, send her the notice that you received.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 18, 2023 16:05:01 GMT
Have you asked the seller if she sent you the replacements with tracking? If so, and if the number matches, send her the notice that you received. I’ve done exactly that - waiting on a response. Personally, I’m beginning to think that I’m dealing with someone who really doesn’t understand counterfeits, philately, etc. Answers are just sounding too uninformed and naive. I’m starting to feel a bit sorry for them.
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Admin
Administrator
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Post by Admin on May 18, 2023 16:10:08 GMT
From my perspective, the USPS would be better served by both informing and warning the sender, rather than just telling the recipient, that the sender is using counterfeit postage stamps.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 18, 2023 18:03:35 GMT
They don’t contact the shipper who used the counterfeits? That’s nuts!
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eggdog
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Post by eggdog on May 18, 2023 18:03:47 GMT
From my perspective, the USPS would be better served by both informing and warning the sender, rather than just telling the recipient, that the sender is using counterfeit postage stamps. Unfortunately, printing counterfeit stamps is cheap. Tracking down the sender and tracking down the deli/smoke shop/whatever that is selling the counterfeits is expensive in terms of human resources and court costs. The USPS would have to cover the costs, and that would impact postage rates, and there'd be another uproar about that, and more people would feel priced out and be more prone to buying counterfeits. The most efficient way would probably be to open packages from places that are known to harbor counterfeiters (which includes quite a bit of the world, not just China), but I'm sure there would be a lot of whining about police states and the like. I don't know that most Americans would think fake postage is such a big deal that it's worth opening everything that comes in. It sounds plausible to raid smoke shops in areas where the counterfeit postage appears to be showing up, but if it's showing up outside of Bellefonte, Pennsylvania, good luck finding all these smoke shops. (Anybody here remember "bath salts"?) Have you asked the seller if she sent you the replacements with tracking? If so, and if the number matches, send her the notice that you received. I’ve done exactly that - waiting on a response. Personally, I’m beginning to think that I’m dealing with someone who really doesn’t understand counterfeits, philately, etc. Answers are just sounding too uninformed and naive. I’m starting to feel a bit sorry for them. I know what you mean. Some people get into something way over their heads, and that doesn't necessarily mean that they're bad people. The thought even occurs to me that this unfortunate vendor might have bought the stamps - maybe even at face value - from some criminal who persuaded him/her that they're leftovers from another failed eBay business. But I wonder: this person knows enough to know that people buy stamp mixtures, and knows how to procure enough mixture-material from somebody/somewhere to open an eBay storefront, but doesn't know that damaged stamps are worthless. To me, that doesn't add up, or if it does it adds up to an imaginary number.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 18, 2023 21:53:03 GMT
Well the counterfeit seized package is NOT from this seller. She contacted me and the tracking numbers don’t match. I am at a loss to know who sent the parcel.
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djcmh
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What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on May 19, 2023 14:00:41 GMT
Well the counterfeit seized package is NOT from this seller. She contacted me and the tracking numbers don’t match. I am at a loss to know who sent the parcel. Can you contact USPS to see if they can tell you the name of the sender??
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 19, 2023 15:48:15 GMT
I’ve been trying to get an answer from the United States Postal Service, but no response so far. Hubby is going to ask at the local post office tomorrow.
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