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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 2:31:01 GMT
I met a new friend at one of our local stamp clubs recently. She deals professionally in antiques, and was referred to one of our local stamp clubs and brought a relative's collection (about five big banker's file type cartons) to our meeting for some opinions as to what it might be worth. To be honest, at first glance, there didn't seem to be much more than perhaps a rudimentary accumulation--collectors wold hardly call it a collection; typically the type most dealers/stamp enthusiasts see too many of these days. It was spread out over several large tables and after the main meeting nearly all attending members elbowed their way to inspect a small part of the rather messy spread. Several of my fellow club members whispered or speculated aloud, after looking through many unsorted shoeboxes, slightly-filled mass-produced beginners' albums, as to what they would or wouldn't pay for the whole lot. It was assumed the seller wanted an immediate offer, which is often the case. Well Anna was a bit overwhelmed (to say the least) when dozens of collectors offered what they thought was a fair offer for this shoebox or that album, or maybe the entire "collection" which probably would have easily filled the back seat of an average car. Many collectors, myself included, would likely have "outbid" each other, if Anna was inclined to sell. Fortunately, a couple of collectors (who will remain unnamed!) counseled Anna that unless she was in urgent need of some cash, she could very likely, with some reorganizing and due diligence, potentially realize more for her collection. Ultimately that person, and others, secretly hoped Anna would become hooked and join our wonderful hobby......... And if I play my cards right, we will have a new TSF member at some point! There were likely many more hidden treasures, but time was limited that evening! The disheartened collectors who were told, after just a few minutes of browsing and elbowing others for a better view, that nothing would be sold that night. They all slunk back to socializing or viewing other items brought to the club meeting for sale trade or auction. This was our well-attended meeting last week (Anna and her stamps are just out of view to the left)  I asked Anna if she would mind if I took some photos of a few covers that I was interested in. Anna said that was fine with her. I had told her that, although I was interested in buying the ones I uncovered, there were likely more that I hadn't seen in the unorganized grouping. The pictures would help me to find out what a fair or reasonable price might be for the ones I photographed. So without further chitchat, here are a few of Anna's covers, in no particular order! Note: All comments appreciated, but might I ask that no other discussion be posted here, which is unrelated to the pictured covers and what they or other items pictured might conceivably be worth or bring at auction or eBay or elsewhere?!
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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 2:46:00 GMT
ITEM #1
1923 "all over" advertising cover from Italy. Beautiful beyond words! It jumped out at me and I fell in love with it. I buy covers somewhat like this for $5 $10 even $20 or more online, but sometimes more. Depending of course, on condition, subject matter, country, and destination.
Not to mention relative scarcity, desirability and eye appeal, to name a few other important criteria in a coveted cover commanding copious cash!
The subject matter I find especially appealing!
 
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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 2:56:15 GMT
Item 2
1920 Postcard apparently written (in English, thankfully!) from a Thailand-based stamp collector named Kim seeking an exchange partner in (St.) Louis, Missouri USA for stamp trading. (Been there, done that myself years ago!)  
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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 3:26:16 GMT
Item 3
USA 1938 Martha Washington definitive "Prexie" horizontal pair with plate number (First Day Cover)
 Not exactly my cup of tea but I believe it is highly collectible and worth two or three dollars at least, with the plate number, to the right collector.
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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 3:31:58 GMT
Item #4A possibly censored WWI-era postal stationery envelope from Denmark postmarked January 1919 (or maybe 1918?). It is addressed internally. Unfortunately I didn't have time to photograph the rear of every cover. This one I would likely pick out of a five-dollar per cover dealer's box, and be quite happy with. Maybe even more. I haven't had the time to look up the address or research censor markings; maybe it is just a company's receiving stamp. Either way it is visually very appealing, with the fine penmanship of bygone days. Not to mention the overall relatively good condition. Too bad about the sloppy (for Scandinavia, at least) machine cancel which is rather illegible to my eyes (nearing midnight after a full day's work!) 
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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 3:55:15 GMT
Item # 5Nothing to write home about (punny, I know) but I like simple advertising covers using contemporary definitives of the period. This cover from Germany sports a 25 Pennig Hindenburg definitive from 1930. It is Scott catalog # 377 and lists ("retail") for 95 cents but its value to most collectors is but a small fraction of that "catalog price". I'm sure most stamp collectors of Germany would have a duplicate or two to spare. Most would be happy to sell the stamp "off cover" for five cents. I think I may even have thirty or more of those common stamps floating around somewhere in my stamp room! On cover, however, for this soiled cover I'd expect to be asked to pay at most a dollar or so. I would likely even " pass" on this cover, as its dirty appearance detracts probably 90% of its value, in my opinion. Otherwise it might fetch several times that amount, if not more, on a good day. Or to the right buyer. Especially if research online would yield a company still in existence called " Hornschuh Thermometer Company" in Germany today...... Relative Scarcity or desirability factors near zero % on this cover, sadly, as there are probably thousands of similar covers from roughly the same period, sent from commercial entities throughout Germany and often are offered in dealer boxes cheaply or online..... eBay search results, anyone? The well-travelled cover likely carried some business correspondence to the American Thermometer Company in Saint Louis, Missouri over 92 years ago. 17th March 1931 with an advertising slogan cancel that fits the bill! (Maybe it included a bill, too! Or more correctly, an invoice... Rechnung? Quittung?) 
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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 4:21:33 GMT
Item # 6A 1936 " Zeppelin" flown cover. Apparently the Hindenburg's maiden (return) flight, notated in pen, likely by the sender. Why the Germany-originating cover didn't have German stamps affixed is a puzzle to me, as I don't seek out or collect philatelically-inspired postal history.  
I know Zeps are generally coveted, and without doing any research, I would guess this cover would retail for maybe thirty or forty dollars. Again it's a guess. An interested dealer might offer me half that. On a good day. Or twice that, I'm just not sure. But with the right Zep stamps, cancels, and proper "auxiliary markings" (denoting things like which "tour" the Zep took, among other factors) the price could triple or quadruple. Some covers even go for thousands of dollars. But not this one, unless my rather untrained eye missed something.....I'm guessing this is just "too basic" a Zep cover for many, especially German Zep collectors. They tend to be a very picky (cheap) bunch. I myself, ever the optimist, would probably happily pay thirty dollars, thinking I might sell it to a Zep collecting friend I know for even more ( Richard J. are you reading this?!?!?). The greater fool theory has many a stamp collector as its best friend...and I am speaking from 53 years collecting experience myself! Buying a Zep cover without detailed knowledge (and experience) is like a groom-to-be buying his fiancé a "genuine diamond ring!" he bought at the local pawn shop for "only $50". The bride-to-be would know to ask any purveyor about getting the best of the three C's ( Cut, Clarity, and Color). Poor bloke, thinking he struck gold, likely would get struck on the head by his unhappy ex-fiancé for wasting $50. In stamps, as in jewelry, you generally get what you pay for. Or more often just 25% or less of what you actually paid for, as any self-respecting girl would discover! Someone prove me wrong about the Zep cover's value please...for poor Anna's sake!!!!!
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Post by jimwentzell on May 23, 2023 5:09:25 GMT
OK it's past my bedtime.
I love to write, review, then edit again
to rewrite and edit what I've already written. And it's lots of fun, but hopefully I will resume posting more covers tomorrow or the day after. Some of us have demanding jobs, I have the dog days of summer. Literally.
Anna is really a very nice person, I could tell, from just the few moments we chatted over a week ago. Trying to help Anna not make a decision she'd regret, I'd promised to research the covers she allowed me to photograh. Unfortunately it wasn't until just a couple hours ago that I finally "got around" to cropping and posting the pictures of just a few of the better covers I found. Hopefully there will be many more that Anna will post herself, or send me pictures of.
I thank all of the wonderful TSF family especially the editors for allowing me to post this rather unusual thread. That's assuming I don't get kicked off or banned from TSF for violating any rule--it would likely happen anywhere else, believe me! Just needed to deliver what I promised to Anna, and I'm guessing she will make an appearance after I let her know the existence of this fine philatelic forum. Anna is definitely the stamp collector type......
Thanks in advance for your comments. I can take criticism (but not flaming!)
---Jim
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paul1
Member 
Posts: 1,207
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Post by paul1 on May 23, 2023 7:54:33 GMT
Jim (jimwentzell) - from a non-cover-collector, a big thanks for creating a very interesting series of posts, and uncovering some wonderful covers - that hand on the first envelope is a stunning piece of calligraphy - come to that most folk then wrote in such a beautiful script, and with a fountain pen too. Best of luck with further research and hope you do acquire some great covers.
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 607
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on May 23, 2023 11:59:26 GMT
Item # 6A 1936 " Zeppelin" flown cover. Apparently the Hindenburg's maiden (return) flight, notated in pen, likely by the sender. Why the Germany-originating cover didn't have German stamps affixed is a puzzle to me, as I don't seek out or collect philatelically-inspired postal history.
Right, this flew on Hindenburg, on the return leg of its first north trans-Atlantic flight.
In Saint Louis, Mr. Conway paid 43 cents. The clerk who figured all this gets my tippo. Let me try. This looks to me (such a low credibility way to start a sentence) like it left Saint Louis by domestic air mail to New York, where it was cancelled on 11 May, then by truck to Lakehurst, all for for 5 cents (I think). After crossing on Hindenburg, it was unloaded in Frankfurt on 14 May. It was returned, either for free or the normal trans-Atlantic surface rate of 5 cents (I don't know which) for a normal one-way trans-Atlantic letter. That left 33 or 38 cents for Zeppelin and German Post to split.
Even if I botched details, it was a bargain. In 1930, when the Zeppelin stamps came out, a one-way, free return letter to or from America cost USD 1.30. Your market estimate looks right.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
Member is Online
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Post by vikingeck on May 23, 2023 15:50:06 GMT
Item #4A possibly censored WWI-era postal stationery envelope from Denmark postmarked January 1919 (or maybe 1918?). It is addressed internally. Unfortunately I didn't have time to photograph the rear of every cover. This one I would likely pick out of a five-dollar per cover dealer's box, and be quite happy with. Maybe even more. I haven't had the time to look up the address or research censor markings; maybe it is just a company's receiving stamp. Either way it is visually very appealing, with the fine penmanship of bygone days. Not to mention the overall relatively good condition. Too bad about the sloppy (for Scandinavia, at least) machine cancel which is rather illegible to my eyes (nearing midnight after a full day's work!) No this is not censored. 1919 within Kobenhavn, one address to another there would not be censorship. Politiken is a newspaper and the boxed handstamp will just be an in house receiving mark. one effect of the immediate end of the war was an increase in the local letter rate from 5ore to 7ore in January 1919, so this is early use of the new postal stationery. The delivery of 7ore stamps to the Faroes from Denmark was delayed by winter weather and caused the local post master supply problems as he needed 2ore to make the rate. His two solutions were to bisect some 4ore and to hand print some 5 ore with “2ORE “ thus creating the first stamps from the Faroes. |
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 1:32:39 GMT
Item # 7
US "Baby Zep" coverSent from Miami, Florida October 23, 1933 and addressed to a Miss Inez Folluo in St. Louis, Missouri with a 50 cent "Baby Zep" stamp. Scott #C18. At least that's what many collectors call the stamp which I think was issued around the time of the Chicago "Century of Progress" Exhibition. 
At one time I had a very similar cover, down to the very same stamp and the same purple hand-stamped cachet. There was the exact same wording; " Dispatched from Miami". I remember having paid $25 many years ago. For a long time I had the cover in an album which I only looked at maybe every few months. But it was a lovely addition to my cover collection. It was also the first true " Zeppelin" cover I owned. Now I have a handful more " Zep" covers, but this was the first. It just seemed like yesterday, in many respects, when I bought it from a cover dealer in Florida, so I know it was purchased in 1995 or earlier as I moved out of Florida in 1995. $25 was the most I had, at that time, paid for any single stamp or any one cover (postal history) and partly because of that, I thought I would own the cover forever. A while ago, I remember trading it for some stamps at a stamp club meeting after bringing the “Baby Zep” and some of my other covers to a “Show and Tell”. It was nice to have owned it for a few years, but as stamp collectors often do, I passed it on to someone who really really wanted it. Or maybe I really really wanted what I traded it for..... Isn't it funny, I can't remember what I got in exchange? Now I wish I had it back.... Oh well, stamp collecting, trading, and the all the camaraderie we as collectors get from socializing, horse-trading, and dabbling in our hobby is priceless, no? =============================================================== So far, it appears likely that Anna's stamp collecting relative must have lived in St. Louis, as a few of Anna's covers seem to have been mailed to St. Louis!
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 2:17:51 GMT
Item # 8
Multi-franked 1935 Registered Cover from Leipzig (Germany) to Hammel, Denmark.
 Postmarked 17-11-1935 (17th November) this letter has eleven stamps totaling 70 Pfennige which apparently paid the postage including a registration fee. The stamps are canceled (sometimes with too much ink, from a collector's view) with a Leipzig circular date stamp (CDS). Likely it was mailed to or from a stamp collector, as the stamps are so neatly arranged. There were (and still are) quite a few more stamp collectors in Germany compared to the US and most other countries, as a percentage of population. You can find similar covers like this online (eBay, Hipstamps, etc.) for sale for a fairly reasonable amount, probably starting bidding at a dollar or so. The stamps themselves, used ("off cover") are not very expensive at all...and on this particular cover they add a bit of value. I'd probably pick this up if it was priced at two dollars. But not a penny more! Reason being, there are sooooo many covers to or from collectors with German stamps, many neatly canceled just like the one shown. Besides, I have probably way too many very similar Germany”philatelic covers.” Many times there is even a notation (in German) to " cancel lightly please" ("Bitte Sauber Stempeln" for example). This classifies it (at least to me) as a philatelic-inspired cover. In other words, the sender or recipient requested certain stamps, usually pictorial or commemorative stamps, be used. As opposed to maybe a 50 Pfenning and a 20 Pfennig "definitive" stamp which would be easier or more convenient for the sender or post office clerk. As a matter of fact, there ARE six "definitive" stamps on Anna's cover, the last four on the top row. A 3, 4 5, and a 6 Pfennig Paul von Hindenburg stamp. The second row begins with a ten Pfennig von Hindenburg definitive. The next one, a 3-Pfennig stamp you may notice, has a black border, as the former WWI hero turned President died in office in 1934. A memorial stamp printed by overprinting existing stamps with black ink between the printed stamps. A very colorful piece of "postal history" indeed!And since we all know "you can't take it with you when you go"......eventually all stamps and covers get "passed down" to surviving relatives, who don't always know where they came from. Or sometimes donated, or (horrors) tossed in the trash. Of course there may be the odd collector who insists on being buried (or cremated) with their collection...... I just haven't met any collectors that odd yet! Or maybe they are too embarrassed to admit it. Guess I'll never know (hmmm....maybe an idea for a stamp poll on this forum!?!?!)
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 2:47:29 GMT
Item 9A US cover with an unusual side perforation. Machine-canceled Sept. 30, 1913. Again in St. Louis! Sent to someone (we'll never know who) from the May Department Stores, also in St. Louis. They used a business window envelope, l would even bet it contained a bill or solicitation! This is classified as an advertising cover, or also a corner cover as the sender's address is printed in, you guessed it, the corner! I especially like corner covers, this one is nice but nothing special. Likely to be priced by stamp dealers a dime a dozen, which these days costs about 50 cents each. Inflation, you know! 
............................................................................BUT WAIT! This is NOT a normal, common stamp! I don't have my Scott US Specialized catalog with me (it's at work with some of my stamps there for when I'm goofing off!) but I recall some private companies about a hundred years ago used their own machines to create unusual perforations on coil stamps that were not yet perforated, so the stamps could be sold in that company's patented vending machine. Of course the company had to get special permission from the US Post Office Deopartment, and then the company had to run the stamps through their special 5-hole perforating machine. It's not a Shermack, which have similarly weird perforations, except the Shermack company made square holes! I wonder if they tried using round pegs.......but I do digress! I've not seen this type perforation before, and to boot, it is a stamp from a "line pair" that was separated. So maybe a small premium there. If this was found in a dealer's " dollar cover box" (price per cover). I would be ecstatic and jump for joy! Some dealers have succumbed to the inflation bug and now have a " five dollar" cover box! I would put on my poker face, and offer $2.50. If the dealer insisted, I might (if I hadn't spent all my money on a Zep cover) actually fork over the whole five dollars. And hope it was a scarce cover. And some fool other collector might even pay twice that! With unusual covers, you just never know..... Wondering if anyone has knowledge of stamps or covers with these special perforations.....???Here's a close-up of the stamp (note only the right side is perforated, and only with five holes): 
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 3:23:45 GMT
Item # 10
Another unusual "proprietary perf" cover! This one is dated just ten days after the previous cover (Item #9 above) on Oct. 10, 1913 and sent to a Mrs. J. Donaldson in "City" (St. Louis, Missouri). Mystery solved! The previous cover also was sent from the same department store: “The Famous and Barr Co.” corner cover return address was changed, and recipient was the same Mrs. J. Donaldson. It can be deduced that the department store billing department owned or leased one or more of the special proprietary perf machines! 
There are TWO reasons why this particular cover ( Item #10) is worth, in my opinion, LESS than the previous cover (Item # 9). If anyone cares to guess, I will send the first correct guesser a similar cover as a prize. A Shermack cover which I have, and will post a picture of tomorrow, if I remember lol! The two reasons are my opinion only! Some may say one of the same reasons that #10 is different, actually makes #10 MORE desirable than Item (cover) #9
If you can tell me that second difference, well I would be dumbfounded.*
And I will also, to the correct winner of the above questions, mail a Shermack cover....here is the link to the Shermack cover prize where you must post your observations/guesses: thestampforum.boards.net/post/168837/thread* I am dumbfounded almost every day when it comes to stamps.....and learn something new to boot!!!!
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 3:42:27 GMT
Item # 11
US Canal Zone commercial cover, Aug. 21 1914.
A most interesting " corner cover" (though not technically an advertising cover)! It has a duplex type cancellation. The year is barely visible between the two main parts of the cancel. Cristobal, C(anal) Z(one). But what I really find interesting is that this cover was definitely sent from the US-administered Canal Zone, to St. Louis, Missouri. Technically it was "mis-sent", as the postal clerk (I'm assuming) crossed out the original "St. Louis" address and hand stamped " East St. Louis, Ill." Maybe they threw it over the Mississippi River; either way it ended up in Illinois, at the "Elliot Frog & Switch Co." Holy Kermit, I wonder what kind of company THAT was! Did they make switches and sell frogs? But the REALLY, REALLY cool thing about this cover.....it has a purple circular cancel (or it LOOKS like a cancel) marked " CORRECTION/SUPPLIED BY/No. 1/ST. LOUIS, MO" I'd really love to hear what you fellow collectors think that might possibly be.....
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 4:00:01 GMT
for the previous Canal Zone cover, yes, I would pay $5 for that conundrum of a cover.
Maybe more if I had been drinking........
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 4:07:12 GMT
Item #12
One of my favorite category of covers: A "Hotel" cover. From The Congress Hotel / and the Senate Apartments in St. Louis. Postmarked June 15, 1936 but with a Little Rock, Arkansas CDS (circular date stamp). From the days a hotel (and apparently some apartments) supplied preprinted envelopes to their guests or tenants.  This one has a notation in pencil " 1st Day 20¢" so that dollar cover box, years ago might have been a twenty cent box! I pick up Hotel covers like this for 50 cents or a dollar. Sometimes more. Sometimes way more. Sometimes I get them ten for a dollar in a larger auction type lot. Again: condition, relative scarcity (of the stamp as well), destination, auxiliary markings. This cover ticks off two of the boxes: It's a hotel cover. And it's in decent condition. That's it. Unless I'm missing something......
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Post by jimwentzell on May 25, 2023 4:23:43 GMT
For those of you who might think cover collectors pay way more than the (non-cover) stamp collector would think is a fair price for a certain cover:
"Show me another one just like it!"
A famous cover dealer based in Australia said once. Or probably more than once. That famous cover dealer is no longer with us, but I have heard his cover hoard is so vast it takes up an entire warehouse!
I know I will never have nearly that much material. Nor that much money!
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on May 25, 2023 17:02:27 GMT
Item # 11
US Canal Zone commercial cover, Aug. 21 1914.
But the REALLY, REALLY cool thing about this cover.....it has a purple circular cancel (or it LOOKS like a cancel) marked " CORRECTION/SUPPLIED BY/No. 1/ST. LOUIS, MO" I'd really love to hear what you fellow collectors think that might possibly be..... Hi jimwentzell . The purple circular handstamp ( not a cancel as it doesn’t actually cancel anything , unlike the duplex which cancels the stamp) in the same ink as the Illinois address stamp suggests mail might frequently be addressed to the wrong State . re addressing if wrongly delivered would incur re-mailing charge or postage due , but if it was corrected within the USPS system , there would be no charge for readdressing. I guess they were so used to it happening they had the handstamps ready with the correction explanation. According to the internet, frog points and Switch points are forged bits of rail track that allow merging and switching of railroad tracks . |
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