rednaxela
Member 
Posts: 177 
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 23, 2023 22:39:10 GMT
In the following threads, I would like to discuss the USSR definitive stamp series, especially the variations to be considered, mainly concerning the printing technique. I will start with the first definitive stamp series with peasant, worker and soldier as the then seen three pillars of the Bolshevik revolution. (In the same image, these issues [in gold ruble currency] already existed in the RSFSR (Russian Socialist Federal Soviet Republic) as the Russian state that emerged after the October Revolution and then became the central actor in the founding of the USSR). This definitive stamp series can be distinguished according to whether the stamps were issued perforated or imperforate, and watermarked or without watermark. Here the printing technique should be emphasized: Letterset or lithography. For the three central motifs (peasant, worker and soldier in kopeck denomination), the following illustrations should clarify the central differences between the two types of printing: Peasant typography Peasant lithography
Worker typography Worker lithography
Soldier typography Soldier lithography I hope this may be helpful to one or the other TSF user. Hints for distinguishing the variants of other USSR definitive stamp issues will follow (not necessarily chronologically, but according to availability of illustrations). |
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madbaker
Member
Posts: 693
What I collect: (Mark) General worldwide collector (to 1975 or so) with a soft spot for Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia.
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Post by madbaker on Sept 24, 2023 2:37:27 GMT
Thanks you for this, rednaxela. I appreciate you sharing some of the details between printings. I love definitive stamps in general because of the opportunity to dig deeper like this. I'm curious, I can see quite a bit of difference in detail between typography and lithography in the peasant and soldier stamps, but not much difference at all in the worker stamp. Is the major difference the darkness between the lines on the face? The worker typography stamp (to my eyes) appears to have fewer, thicker lines. I don't have any of these stamps so I can't compare to the real thing.  |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 24, 2023 7:24:40 GMT
Dear madbaker , you can see the difference mainly by the dark spot next to the worker's ear.
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Post by gstamps on Sept 24, 2023 8:57:06 GMT
Hi rednaxela I am a beginner collector and I was lucky enough to receive good advice from an experienced collector: FIRST LEARN HOW STAMPS ARE MADE - I still studying. I translated from Michel (I don't know if the translation is very clear) some elements for recognizing the 2 printing methods. Typo: Squeezed edges on writing and lines. Colored areas appear unsettled under the magnifying glass and slight embossing is usually visible on the back Litho: Blurry images with often interrupted lines. dull, soft color (thin application of paint) contours indistinct. I don't have these stamps you are referring to, but only the RSFSR typo series from 1923 (ex Scott 239)  How do I identify that it is a typo print? 1. I check on the back of the stamp if the lines of the drawing appear in relief.  2. With a powerful magnifying glass (I use a mini microscope) I generally check the frame lines. Due to the pressure exerted in typo printing, the ink is oriented from the middle of the line to its edge where an obvious accumulation occurs.  |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 24, 2023 9:24:33 GMT
Hello gstamps. The "Forces of the Revolution" as RSFSR definitives were printed exclusively in typography. |
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Post by gstamps on Sept 24, 2023 13:24:56 GMT
Hi rednaxelaI knew that this RSFSR series was printed only typo. I have presented how you can identify this printing method. It is also valid for subsequent series. I was expecting you to post your litho printed copy. From your images (or from Scott's explanations) it is not very clear. It would be helpful for site members to post your stamps in typo and litho (at a good resolution) A good picture is worth a thousand words. |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 24, 2023 14:08:05 GMT
Hi rednaxela I knew that this RSFSR series was printed only typo. I have presented how you can identify this printing method. It is also valid for subsequent series. I was expecting you to post your litho printed copy. From your images (or from Scott's explanations) it is not very clear. It would be helpful for site members to post your stamps in typo and litho (at a good resolution) A good picture is worth a thousand words. Hi gstamps , there has obviously been a misunderstanding... I cannot provide more detailed pictures to illustrate the two printing techniques for this definitive stamp series, as I have concentrated on the most obvious differences: Peasant: the four strokes in the corner (short and thick or long and narrow), Worker: the spot next to the ear (very clearly visible or barely perceptible), Soldier: the shoulder line (does not reach or reaches the frame).
Nevertheless, your hints on how typography can be identified ("squeezed" colors and relief print on the back) are absolutely correct! In my opinion, just these USSR devinitives show the difference between typography and lithography very clearly. (Certainly I could have given additional hints, so that the viewer knows what he/she should pay attention to in each case).
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 24, 2023 16:26:35 GMT
Today I would like to draw your attention to a single stamp of the USSR definitive series issued in different variants between 1939 and 1957: the aviator at 50 kopecks (Michel # 682, Scott # 736.). This stamp was produced through the years (according to Michel catalog) in three printing variants: typography (1939/1940 in different image sizes and with different perforation), lithography (1946) and offset (i.e. indirect) lithography (1947). A Russian catalog I have access to lists only typography and offset, but the differences between lithography and offset are obvious. Here are the illustrations of the main distinguishing features of this stamp according to the respective printing technique (with additional notes on what to look for): Typography (no white border around the propeller and clearly hatched sweater collar of the aviator and lines on his forehead). Lithography (no white border around the propellor, but less hatching on the collar, the foreheadas well as the chin are without lines) Offset (white line around the propellor [central distinguishing feature!], also the whole face of the aviator, especially his nose, is clearly outlined, unlike the other two printing techniques) Supplementary notes: This stamp in typography as well as offset exists with line perforation 12:12½ and line perforation 12½, in lithography-variant only the comb perforation 12:12½ exists. |
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,610
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Sept 24, 2023 17:06:30 GMT
This looks quite interesting. I hope it continues.
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 24, 2023 17:38:07 GMT
Now I am also documenting the infantryman (face value 15 kopecks) from the same definitive stamp series as the aviator (Michel #679, Scott #735). This stamp was issued in typography (1939 in line perforation 12:12½, 1940 in line perforation 12½) and offset (1947 in comb perforation 12:12½). Here the distinguishing features are a bit more difficult.... According to my own research, the hatching on the soldier's right shoulder is a bit steeper in typography than in offset: Typography  Offset  |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 24, 2023 18:09:04 GMT
And finally - at least for this URRS definitive series and for today - also the miner (Michel #676, Scott #734). This stamp appeared both in typography (1939, line perforation 12:12½, image size 15x22 mm, and 1940 in line perforation 12½, image size 15x22.5mm) and in offset printing (1956, comb perforation 12:12½, image size 14x21.5mm). Apart from perforation and image size, both types of printing can also be easily distinguished: Typography: (no white bordered rectangle next to the hand): Offset: (white bordered rectangle next to the hand):
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Post by gstamps on Sept 25, 2023 11:30:15 GMT
Hi rednaxela Thanks for this information. I have a block of 4 stamps that I tried to identify.  With Michel it was very simple: 677 II A -1953 issue.(perf. K12 x 12.5 offset print, format 14.5 x 21 mm) I also have the Scott catalog where I found 616B and the mention: "re-issued in 1954-56 in slightly smaller format 14 1/4 x 21mm, gray black" Since my stamps have this format, I continued the search. I thought re-issue meant a new issue of stamps for postal use. I did not find (perhaps I need to change my glasses) in the standard Scott catalog (period 1954-56, according to the mention above) a catalog number. Is it common practice not to assign a catalog number to re-issued stamps? |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Sept 25, 2023 18:30:05 GMT
Hello @ gstamps , I will certainly deal with this issue at some time. In any case, I can or must confirm that - at least if one is used to the Michel system for the Russian/Soviet stamps - a supplementary look in the Scott catalog brings more confusion than clarity. I dealt today with another definitive stamp of the Soviet Union, where for the systematization of its variants the Scott-KIatalog was no real help: Today I present the variants that exist for the 40-kopeck stamp from the definitive stamp series issued from 1948 on, i.e. the stamp with coat of arms and flag of the Soviet Union (Michel # 1335, Scott # 1689). On the one hand, these issues can be distinguished according to how many ribbon turns are on left side of the wreath of the coat of arms: 8 ribbons in the two issues in 1948 and 1949, or 7 ribbons in the two issues in 1957 and 1958.   The number of ribbons in the national emblem symbolized the respective member republics of the Soviet Union. When the stamp was first issued in 1947, the USSR consisted of a total of 16 Union Republics . Therefore, there were 16 ribbons on the national coat of arms (8 on the left, 7 on the right, and 1 at the bottom center). In 1956, one of these Union Republics - the Karelo-Finnish Soviet Socialist Republic, founded in 1940 - was dissolved and its territory was integrated into the Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic. Accordingly, the national coat of arms was reduced by one ribbon to 15 (left and right 7, and bottom center 1), which was then also changed in the design of this definitive stamp. (The pictorially identical stamp at 30 kopecks was printed exclusively with 16 ribbons and only in photogravure, Michel #1207, Scott # 1218.) Parallel to these two design variants, the 40 kopeck stamp was produced in a total of three different printing techniques, at least according to the information in the Michel catalog: the original variant with 8 ribbons on the left side in offset lithography(1948) and in typography (1949),
the new variant with seven ribbons on the left side in offset-lithography (1957) as well as in photogravure (1958).
The Scott catalog gives for #1689 the hint that this issue exists with 8 as well as with 7 ribbons on the left side, but names only typography as printing technique (which is not correct).
And there also are the rather cryptic information about Scott #1689 [what is the original issue, and what are the re-issues?]:
"Arms Type of 1948
1954-57
1689 A682 40k scarlet ...
a. 8 ribbon turns on wreath at left ... [54]
No. 1689 was re-issued in 1954-56 typo-
graphed in slightly smaller format:
14 1/2x21 3/4mm, instead of 14 3/4x21 3/4mm, and in
a lighter shade. See note after No. 738.
No. 1689 has 7 ribbon turns on left side of
wreath."
In the following images, I again focus on key distinguishing features of the printing types:
8 ribbons on the left side, offset (Michel # 1335 I, type I): clear lines, sun rays above sun vertical
 
8 ribbons on the left side, typography (Michel # 1335 II): also clear lines, but sun rays slightly tilted to the left
 7 ribbons on the left side, offset (Michel # 1335 I, type II): clear lines, sun rays above sun vertical (same as issue with 8 ribbons on the left side) 7 ribbons on the left site, photogravure (Michel # 1335 IV): Clear dotted lines  |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 2, 2023 17:51:31 GMT
Today I would like to present definitive stamps of the USSR issued between 1958 and 1960. In the Michel catalog, this series is called "Workers and Production Facilities". In the Russian system, this was the 9th definitive stamp series of the USSR. The motifs are: female kolkhoz peasant, construction engineer and metallurgical worker, the latter in two color variants (red and blue). Different types of printing were also used for these issues. The issues were all printed in offset lithography as well as in recess with one exception (metallurgist in blue only in offset lithography). In the Michel catalog, these stamps are considered spread over the years depending on the printing type between 1958 and 1960 (## 2198, 2372, 2230, 2328 I, 2328 II, 2138, 2231 and 2362). Here once the Scott catalog is clearer, which summarizes this series in its print variants lithography and (recess) engraving under ## 2286 to 2293. Now here are key distinguishing features between recess and lithography for the three designs: Recess:    Offset lithography:    For the construction engineer, the Michel catalog also distinguishes between offset lithography and (direct) lithography. There are no really visible differences in the printed image. The lithography print only turns out darker than the offset lithography print (dark brown vs. light brown). |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 21, 2023 14:57:55 GMT
Today I would like to draw your attention (or that of those who are interested in such things...) to a stamp of the (according to the Russian system) 10th definitive series of the USSR, issued 1961 through 1966. In the Michel catalog it bears the designation "Socialism" (what else). It is the value of 12 kopeks, which shows the monument of K. Minin and D. Pozharsky in front of the Spassky Tower of the Moscow Kremlin:  Both the Michel catalog (#2502) and the Scott catalog (#2447) indicate that this stamp was printed solely in photogravure. However, a look into a Russian catalog as well as the own attention (and some internet research..) show that this issue was also printed in offset lithography - and this even in two variants! The differences between the three variants are best illustrated by how the sky behind the Spassky tower is reproduced. When printed in photogravure, evenly spaced lines are used:  In the offset variant I (1966) paired lines can be seen:  In contrast, the background in offset variant II (1965) is a grid of dots:  Additional note: On the photogravure printed stamp, the minute hand of the clock on the Spassky Tower (some minutes to twelve) is not (at least barely) visible on some stamps:
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djcmh
Member
Posts: 773
What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on Oct 21, 2023 15:31:12 GMT
Which Russian catalogue do you use rednaxela Zagorskiy or Soloviev. I have access to both and it is always interesting to see where those two differ in their listings. |
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Oct 21, 2023 16:25:57 GMT
Interesting, saved that information, but possibly gave away most others as "duplicates"
Here is the one from my album, photogravure with minute hand Sc# 2447
Comb Perf.
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 21, 2023 17:57:30 GMT
Which Russian catalogue do you use rednaxela Zagorskiy or Soloviev. I have access to both and it is always interesting to see where those two differ in their listings. I do use the catalog of "СТАНДАРТ КОЛЛЕКЦИЯ" (STANDARD COLLECTION Ltd, Saint Petersburg), here the issue of 2008. There the stamp of 1961 in photogravure printing is mentioned as # 2500, that in offset printing in both variants as # 3302 A and B. |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 21, 2023 18:25:22 GMT
and here, after my scanner does its job again (not always easy with Ubuntu-Linux...), also the relevant catalog page...  |
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djcmh
Member
Posts: 773
What I collect: Worldwide
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Post by djcmh on Oct 22, 2023 1:02:14 GMT
Which Russian catalogue do you use rednaxela Zagorskiy or Soloviev. I have access to both and it is always interesting to see where those two differ in their listings. I do use the catalog of "СТАНДАРТ КОЛЛЕКЦИЯ" (STANDARD COLLECTION Ltd, Saint Petersburg), here the issue of 2008. There the stamp of 1961 in photogravure printing is mentioned as # 2500, that in offset printing in both variants as # 3302 A and B. Ah ok standard collection = Zagorskiy |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 22, 2023 11:13:14 GMT
I have just added my new findings on USSR stamp Scott # 2447 , Michel # 2502 , and Zakorskiy ## 2500 and 3302 A/B to my collection:  |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 22, 2023 13:12:08 GMT
I like Solovyov's catalog better. You are missing 1 position in the standard with Lenin. Thank you very much for this hints. Perhaps I will have the opportunity to have a look on the Solovyov in my stamp club. With the missing position you do mean the 50 "КОГ." instead of "КОП"? This variant was unknown to me until now. I usally integrate into my album stamps which I already have or which I have the chance to achive rather easyly (therfore, as examples, no Limonka or Kartonka...) and do know they exist... |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 22, 2023 13:37:11 GMT
A missed position is a 50 kopeck perforation option. The scan is not mine.Taken from an auction. Now I understand! Thank you very much!
When I started to design my album pages, I had to answer the question not least with the USSR stamps from 1954 on, whether I also include all - partly quite expensive - perforation variants [comb perforation and line perforation]. As a rule, I only include these variants when I acquire them in individual cases. Otherwise, the large number of "white spots" frustrates when looking at the album. The same applies to the distinction between original imprints and their reprints from later years, of which at least in the Michel catalog (Standard) almost only the 1950 issue of "indomitable socialism" (large or small Albanian heraldic eagle) is named. |
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Oct 22, 2023 18:10:18 GMT
A missed position is a 50 kopeck perforation option. The scan is not mine.Taken from an auction. Thanks again for the hint kosmo73 ! I have searched all my stock books and found a matching Lenin stamp. I immediately changed the relevant album page so that everything is correct and complete (without printing errors). Here is the English version of the text:  |
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armenin2000
Member
I am 73 years old. I have been collecting stamps since 1963. My interests are Greater Russia. Stamps
Posts: 273
What I collect: Greater Russia. Stamps, covers , maxcards
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Post by armenin2000 on Nov 1, 2023 22:08:08 GMT
Two variants of a broken letter  |
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armenin2000
Member
I am 73 years old. I have been collecting stamps since 1963. My interests are Greater Russia. Stamps
Posts: 273
What I collect: Greater Russia. Stamps, covers , maxcards
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Post by armenin2000 on Nov 6, 2023 17:56:55 GMT
Information for those who collect the USSR definitives. White cheek is not a kind of stamps of this issue in sheet (100 pieces) have White cheek.  |
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rod222
Member
Posts: 9,928
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 6, 2023 23:03:38 GMT
Quote:
White cheek is not a kind of stamps of this issue in sheet (100 pieces) have White cheek.
Perhaps an advanced state, of a light engraving area, in that position.
I see beginnings of "white cheek" also in the 10 kopek.
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armenin2000
Member
I am 73 years old. I have been collecting stamps since 1963. My interests are Greater Russia. Stamps
Posts: 273
What I collect: Greater Russia. Stamps, covers , maxcards
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Post by armenin2000 on Nov 10, 2023 13:46:06 GMT
I don't know how appropriate this message will be here. This is 5 definitives of Russia. It is difficult to collect. It can even be compared to the gold standard. Suffice it to say that it was officially announced about the first two issues. No one notified further information about subsequent releases. It would seem that 5 definitive indicates 2008 for 6 definitive 2009. The term is not long. But during this time, V issues came out plus 2 issues with a different glue. In Zagorsky's catalog, all these issues are described crumpled. Only in Petrishchev's catalog. All issues are described in turn. In each issue the difference between the stamps of this issue for each face value is described. The first issue of this directory skipped several errors. The author was going to fix everything in the next edition. But the covid could not survive. Zagorsky's catalog is going to be revised, but when it will not be clear. Very neat and beautiful envelope with a mark on the field  |
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armenin2000
Member
I am 73 years old. I have been collecting stamps since 1963. My interests are Greater Russia. Stamps
Posts: 273
What I collect: Greater Russia. Stamps, covers , maxcards
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Post by armenin2000 on Nov 14, 2023 17:18:05 GMT
rednaxela
collecting chronology you need to understand that definitives stamps are published several years before 1966. So definitives stamps 1961 from 1 kopeck to 16 kopecks were printed many times. Marks 20 30 50 kopecks were published only 1 time in 1961.
And therefore I always give stamps of small denominations more space. If you look at the most frequent brand of 4 kopecks, then you will find many interesting varieties. These s are stamps cheap, but they will bring not little pleasure.
The main thing is to know what to look for. If you are interested, I can make a small scan of the varieties of this stamps.
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rednaxela
Member
Posts: 177
What I collect: Germany in all its facets since 1871 (especially German Reich used including postal statinoneries, used), USSR, Austria, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Denmark, France. I design all album pages for my collection myself and partly make them available to the general public for use.
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Post by rednaxela on Nov 14, 2023 17:29:13 GMT
rednaxela collecting chronology you need to understand that definitives stamps are published several years before 1966. So definitives stamps 1961 from 1 kopeck to 16 kopecks were printed many times. Marks 20 30 50 kopecks were published only 1 time in 1961. And therefore I always give stamps of small denominations more space. If you look at the most frequent brand of 4 kopecks, then you will find many interesting varieties. These s are stamps cheap, but they will bring not little pleasure. The main thing is to know what to look for. If you are interested, I can make a small scan of the varieties of this stamps. Some scans would be very helpful. Many thanks in advance! I now also have a Solovjev catalog and am busy learning... |
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