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Post by viking1234 on Nov 30, 2023 11:48:53 GMT
Why do I want to make a topic Plate flaws/Varities in Belgium stamps? I have not found anything fantastic reading material regarding Belgium, maybe because I do not speak french and I do not know what to search for. Not knowing can be a problem, when you want to sell your stamp, that is why reading special litterature or stamp litterature, articles can be helpfull and earn you some extra when you want to seel your stamp. If you know the position of the stamp in the sheet and you have an estimated value it would be nice to know. I will show you 10 Fr. Railway stamp from Belgium, I have no knowlege regarding plate flaws/varieties other than the one mentioned in Catalog officiel from Belgium known as COB. The sheet is build up by 4 1/4 sheet of 25 stamp, therefore I have to count the stamps from the upper left sheet that will be stamp 1-25, next right upper, left lower and right lower, I do not know how to name them, But the easy part will to take them row by row 1-10 and so on the lower will be from 51-100. Ok, here goes have not seen anything about this stamp, but I have a couple of sheets with the plate flaws, Primery flaws with black cirkels secondary with red. 10 Fr. Wingede wheel COB SP47 pos. 53, I use TSF Image host.
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Post by viking1234 on Nov 30, 2023 12:10:41 GMT
10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 71
10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 92
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Post by viking1234 on Nov 30, 2023 12:19:51 GMT
10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 52
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 1, 2023 0:30:27 GMT
10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 94
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 1, 2023 0:41:04 GMT
10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 95
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stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 1, 2023 0:54:09 GMT
I have 4 total, 2 mint and 2 used. The only thinkl I notice inlooking at mine is following the N in SPOOWEGEN, there is a fairly noticeable 'dot" to the right of ther "N". The top of the "1" in the year date (14) almost points up at it. I have a hard time deciphering COB's descriptions of varaiants... some make sense... others, it must be the fact I do not speak fluent French (in fact my French is rudimentary at best)!
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 1, 2023 0:59:17 GMT
10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 95 This is an other type of variety, it is a missing Perforation hole most likely a broken needle, when stamps is separated, it will most likely tear the corner. It is between stamp 51-65
Close up
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 1, 2023 1:48:35 GMT
stainlessb I have found your stamp it is 10 Fr Winged Wheel COB SP47 Pos 4.
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 1, 2023 1:50:18 GMT
I have 4 total, 2 mint and 2 used. The only thinkl I notice inlooking at mine is following the N in SPOOWEGEN, there is a fairly noticeable 'dot" to the right of ther "N". The top of the "1" in the year date (14) almost points up at it. I have a hard time deciphering COB's descriptions of varaiants... some make sense... others, it must be the fact I do not speak fluent French (in fact my French is rudimentary at best)! Please see my upload I found your stamp, it is Position 4 above
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 1, 2023 9:05:19 GMT
10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 67 also known as Variation SP-47V FP instead of FR This is the left lower 1/4 sheet and as you can see marked with red the perforation hole is missing, I think it is causede by a broken needle as it continues between stamp 56-70
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 1, 2023 15:30:14 GMT
viking1234 thank you. now I see the other two markings!
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 2, 2023 10:58:55 GMT
stainlessb glad I could help, you are always welcome to upload your 10Fr Wingede wheel and others is also welcome to do that I might be able to help with a position. 10 Fr Wingede Wheel COB SP47. Pos 5
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 2, 2023 18:25:22 GMT
8 Nov 1961 6 Fr L'eruatom de Mol 1197-V Boomerang Sheet size 30 Posision: Plade 2 stamp 24
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 3, 2023 19:38:45 GMT
COB 57 10 C. Red Brown This one I have no Information, But there is plate flaws, do any one have information of Posision and Plate?
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 3, 2023 23:45:31 GMT
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 4, 2023 20:24:21 GMT
stainlessb Nice copies and the Colour spots and whith errors is always possible to plate, the thing is I do not have acces to plates or litterature, but the stamps yhou show have what it takes to plate stamps, we just need somone with great knowleddge about the early issues. In Denmark with will need 3 copys of a variation to accept it, I show you a Plate Flaw at the stamp I use as Avatar, I found 3 Copies in the red 10 ore and I have 2 in the Green, the Position is Nr 15. in a limited part of the the plates. Denmark position nr 15, You will see a White dot in the Left top between the flowers. I ahve a link to a Danish webpage that still exsist but the owner closede it, but you can serarch danish stamp values in it and you can even find my uploads. I give the link under the stamp.
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 4, 2023 22:03:52 GMT
Belgium COB 58 10 C Rose Issuede 1 January 1900What am I looking at to determine a Plate flaw or a variant in a stamp? I normally start looking at the frame, then i examine the portrait, the figures in the corners and so on. I normally have a Flawless stamp to look at and then take it from there. I normall scan my stamps in high resolution scan 1200 dpi and have a scanner full, the I can go back and forth between the different stamp. I once had an HP printer which could scan foto negatives, i figurede out using the Foto negatives settings at the printer I could actually use it to scan stamps and see the Watermark, unfortunately the Printer went to the electronic heaven, It just usede the last power and burned out :-) Now Look at the 3 stamps all missingt he no delivery at Sonday tap, try see if you can find flaws. I can't give you any postions at the stams because I do not have hole sheets. Looking forward to see what you come up with.
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 4, 2023 22:55:18 GMT
I do like flyspecking! left stamp- overall looks pretty "OK" a few small spots, but, more likely dust or insufficient inking than a flaw (if a slaw a- very minor ones) middle stamp- not much that catches my eye right stamp- not sure what to call it, but the 'beaded" arch , above lower edge, starting below the "L" in BELGIE and ending under the "P" in POSTE, counting the 'beads" from the right, 3 & 4 are almost tied together and actually quite a bit of "noise" under most all the beads. At 3:00 ornamentation at edge missing much of the vertical scribing inside the open "C" last , and perhaps most pronounced, the two "drapes below the right corner, the bottom edge of the right one is missing. the seam inbetween has some breaks (but this could be all be under-inking). I have look at >100 of the red and the lighter orange-brown variant and found nothing similar. I did notice on the orange-brown, the open "C": on the right pretty much all lack the internal scribed lines If like many countries- the denomination frame/circlle, could be blanck so that the same die is used on other denominations by using different numerals (this is the case on the France Type Sage)
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stanley64
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What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 5, 2023 11:12:56 GMT
Frames, lettering, dots and dashes; you are well on your way viking1234 :-) Whilst 'fly-specking' can be fun, the true philatelic reward is to plate the individual flaws and assign them a position within the printed sheet. At the same time, whole sheets, although useful, are not always necessary; partial sheets or large fragments are often enough for one's plating endeavours. All one needs is a reference point, i.e. a known position of at least one plate flaw and from there, you can extrapolate the position of others. Have a look at the Ceres Issue (1912-1949) - Portugal & Colonies thread for some examples.
I had a quick look at your strip of three and agree with stainlessb , the upper right-hand corner holds promise,
I am always amazed, that even after 100 years+, there is still 'stuff' to be discovered with these earlier issues...
Have fun and happy collecting!
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 5, 2023 16:38:37 GMT
stainlessb and stanley64 Thank you for participating and show and tell what you discoverede. I might have a little bit more. The thin frame and the missing line and drawing in the right corner of stamp 3 is also one I would mark. Stamp 2 the broken line under B is a keeper, I also markede the P and it is because I think it might be a sign of a worn plate, but for reference I want to keep it in mind, the same with the G in Belgium at the 3 stamp., I also marked the corner and the Yellow cirkel at stamp 2 is what we sometimes call an "Elephant hair", it is a foreigne objekt that has been droppede at the plate, a hair, a piece of papper ec. what it does it suck the ink from an area around the objekt leaving a white cirkel around it Here is my markings.
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 5, 2023 21:14:28 GMT
I have a question Concerning the beard. Does anyone know why ther is an R in the beard does it mean Roi, and wwhat about the happy face anyone have a storry?
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 5, 2023 22:03:25 GMT
That is a great question (about the "R") It appears the artist was Henri Hendrickx and the engraver Albert Doms, so that rules out hidden initials of either of them,
The smiley face I'm not so sure about!?!?
Anyone know?
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Dec 5, 2023 22:28:52 GMT
I have a question Concerning the beard. Does anyone know why ther is an R in the beard does it mean Roi, and wwhat about the happy face anyone have a storry? This has long troubled me. I believe it is a "D" from the engraver A DOMS BUT, E Mouchons, engraved this one, Doms did the frame
In the 1869 vignette you can see the "A D" for Doms, in the very lower right hand corner.
No doubt the intelligentsia will solve it one day.
I don't believe, this is just coincidence in the burin line in the beard.
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