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Post by viking1234 on Dec 2, 2023 19:27:50 GMT
As you all know there is a lot of false Belgium stamps. 49 post ago when I introducede my self, I had uploadede a 2 Fr. Violet of Roi Albert I. The Stamp is false and I am sure many of you might have a 2 Fr. not knowing it is false. The serie have 4 false stamp COB nr. 114 40 Cent Green, 116 1 Fr. Orange. 117 2 Fr. Violet and the Grande Effigie 5 fr. Bourdeaux. As my post nr. 50 "tada" I will show you the 2 Fr. Violet. COB 117 2 Fr. Violet Faux. The 2 Left the foot is longer and is not allignede to the bend in the top of 2. the two F is of differen size. I am sure many of you might have a false copy in you collection I know I have. |
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tobben63
Member 
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,866 
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Dec 3, 2023 5:16:09 GMT
Thanks for the post viking1234. I must check mine today. |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 3, 2023 12:10:20 GMT
Thanks for the post viking1234 . I must check mine today. If you find one please upload, a pictures they say "is worth a thoushand words" |
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,649
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 3, 2023 15:39:24 GMT
here is my only example-  and here is the left 2 and right 2. Left 2 is not perfectly aligned, but doesn't look as far off-set as yours, and it does look as thoiught the red line is 'squaring" off the end of the base. Opinion please!   |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 3, 2023 19:21:30 GMT
here is my only example- and here is the left 2 and right 2. Left 2 is not perfectly aligned, but doesn't look as far off-set as yours, and it does look as thoiught the red line is 'squaring" off the end of the base. Opinion please! The Red line i made of the genuine is an example of how the fotof the 2 schould allign, You have found a False stamp, I have allignede the 2, have the long foot at the base line and do not allign. Thank you for sharing. |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 3, 2023 19:30:20 GMT
Well I have another One  |
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Post by nick2302 on Dec 3, 2023 22:33:05 GMT
The French is saying "Do not deliver on Sundays".
Nick
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 6, 2023 22:29:26 GMT
Well the time has come, I am gonna make pages for my Mérode Stamp all 3 values 5 C. , 10 C and the 20C I will show you a brought variety of the Mérode False stamp and Genuine. I Know there is a tread about these stamps, but I keep them here, with the rest of the Belgium false stamp issues. The actual number of Genuine stamps differ a lot, but the stamp issue was for domistic use. The catalog uses the figures Red Cross has. The ordered stamp was: Ordered Red Cross Figures(Genuine) 5 C. 600.000 stk. 5 C.150.000 stk. 10 C. 600.000 stk. 10 C.150.000 stk. 20 C. 75.000 stk. 20 C. 50.000 stk. How many stamps Red cross actually sold is now know, that means there could be even less genuine stamps in cirkulation than red cross had receivede for sale. Soebert has issue numbers of the genuinen stamps that differs a lot from the official numbers, if these numbers is correct the genuine stamp proabably is valuede to low. The SG catalog states that as many as 90% of this issue is false and it could be even more. 5 C. 24.000 stk. 10 C. 30.000 stk. 20 C. 12.000 stk. I will start with a Genuine 20 C. Violet COB 128 This is position 21 and 22 from plate 1 If you look at Position 22 in the lower frame below Belgie, you will see under BE there is a white DOT in the line  |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 7, 2023 15:09:48 GMT
Mérode The Stamps Belgium of WW I
20 C + 20 C Violet Genuine Stamp
Perforated: 14. Is also known unperforated WM: None Gum: Thin and shiny, crackled which form a pattern of sloppy stripes Paper: Granular, cream-coloured (5 and 10 cent) or rosy-purple (20 cent). Influenced by light or water the latter becomes cream-coloured. The paper as you can see change over the years we have to remember the stamp is more than 100 years old. You probably all know the characteristic of the genuine 20 C. but let us have a look, how to determine a genuine stamp. • The Cedilla in Q is drawn verry clearly this is what it looks like in the 20C, (The appearance of the Cedilla is different from each in the three values) as you can see the Cedilla has space in both sides and is well formede. Cedilla in Q in BELGIQUE 20 C. • The Letters BEL is closer to the top line in the sector than the rest of the letters in BEL[GIQUE] BEL Closer to the top Line • Only the letters U an E in BELGIQ[UE] is touching each other and the second E is open UE Touch and E is open • The Scroll Right to the second E is broken in the middle, but not more than that.
Scroll broken in the middle • 2 in 20 at the left, little notch in the scroll of the 2, little excavation in the ornamental leaf at the food of the 2
Notch in left 2 and Excavation in leaf • Coloured point at the right side of the 0 in 20 also in the left value 20, the point is close to the middle of the 0
Colurede point in Left 0 right side in 20 • Coloured Point in Right 0 in 20 in the inside almost in the centre, sometimes it is barely visible Point in the inside centre right in the right figures 0 • The beginning of the foot of the 2 in the 20 at the right attaches the scroll or attaches it almost The Foot attaches the Scroll • The letters BELGIE touch one another
The letters touch • The Squares (Looks like raster squares from steelprint) around BELGIE and the shields and shadows beneath BELGIE the squares are verry visible. The crosses have right angles and the compact pale-red colour covers the whole surface very well, without lacks or crackx 
Raster around BELGIE and the crosses field with colouer
Now that you all know what to look for in the Genuine 20 C.+ 20 C. Mérode Violet, try to scan the internet, your preferd auctionside ec. look at the prizes and look at the stamp, picture quality ec. You have to remember the only one who earns money at a false stamp is the seller, the buyer looses a lot, you schould always contact the seller and tell them they could get in trouble, because the seller is responsible for the stamp and if it is sold as genuine it better be, the seller is belivede to aquiered the knowledge to sell the stamp as genuine.
Ok, go for it let's see what you find out there and remember collectors at TSF now have an edge because you know what to look for.
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Post by gstamps on Dec 8, 2023 9:36:51 GMT
Hi viking1234 Thanks for this interesting information. I inherited a stamp collection in which I identified many stamp forgeries (due to the problem of not knowing the language, I use the term "forgery" as opposed to the term "genuine" - and I think it is similar to the terms "faux", "false", "fake " "private reprint" etc.) A general rule for my forgings is that they are made litho and perforated in line. The 1912 Albert series - according to the Michel catalog - is typo printed and has perf comb. K14. I notice that the 2F forged stamp has a comb perforation (I guess 14) and I am not sure if it is printed litho or typo. It would help me if you could specify the method of printing the forged stamp. I found the following information on the net: "Verschueren, Antwerp. Based in the twaalfmaandenstr, Verschueren printed during the first world war two series of stamps 10/1914 nr 123-123-125 and 126-127-128 of the official Belgium catalogue. Later in war the printer began to make forgeries by the millions which are found all over the world. Of the real stamps, they made very little, just tens of thousands of each." I think it refers to Red cross stamps (litho and perf comb. K14) Is it possible that Verschueren seems to have forged the 1912 Albert series as well? -which would explain the identical perforation as on the original stamps, but I am still not sure if the original plates were used (with small differences in the drawing that you explained) or if they are litho plates made after the original typo plates. |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 8, 2023 11:41:41 GMT
gstamps Yes, a lot of terms is usede, I like the words false and genuine, "faux" is also a nice word, In the old days stamps used for mail send abroad, was valuede in centimes the french gold currency. You would know how to frank you letter to different parts of the world, at the same times countries start using differnt coloured stamps Green for postal cards domestic, letters red domistic and finally blue for letters send abroad if the letters was not frank correctly the letter was marked with a "T", and at the letter front it was written with blue- or red chalck how much the addtional porto was. Concerning the 2 Fr, I think they use the same technique as the real stamps Typhographie, but they could have usede Photogravuer the red cross little albert have different size than the genuine, it is very difficult to distinguish the real stamps from the false, because they is well made and to me (I do not know if is correct) they must have had similar printing equipment. I do not know anything about the paper usede for the false stamp either, I have not giving it much thought, but that also could be an interesting topic. Today you just need a printer. Regarding the Perforation,Belgium stamped was perforatede 14 in a periode of time from 1883 to 1919, the printer might have bought a new perforatoraand usede in the periode, I would suppose the stamps is perforatede with a comb. During WW I, the Albert red Cross, it is said the printers destroyed the printing stones and burnede the stamp paper at a nearby bakery. It do not say what they did with the perforator, but if you know about the stamp process at the time, it would not be that hard to perforate and print the stamps. Verschueren was a printer of trade and I also think the printer had something to do with the printing of stamps, he would have acces to everything that a printer schould use Little Albert 1912 and the high value 5 Fr. Verschueren might have falsede the stamps, but Information regarding who made the false stamps is hard to find and is not know to me. The 5 Fr is printet at the correct paper, to me it might suggest that the paper was either sold to the person who made the false stamp or he/she most have get hold at it illegal somehow. Comperforator, this is a Danish type
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 8, 2023 14:42:10 GMT
Mérode Forgery F1 False stamp 20 C+ 20 C violet Easy Forgery It is almost like Christmas every day a new topic, In the previous post I was writing what to look for in a genuine stamp of the Mérode, you can always go back and read. The false stamps actually is not that bad made. For a new collector or for stamp collector not having the Mérode serie of stamps in the collection, it will be easy to buy the stamp online, but as I have told you, many sellers is not aware they are selling a false stamp and that also counts for the buyer. Why is it difficult to know you have a false stamp in your hand of the Mérode? Well, that is what I am trying to help you established. The F1 Forgery is perforated 14 as the genuine stamp The F1 Forgery is called the easy forgery, but if you do not know how the real stamp should look like, does it make sense to call a forgery the easy forgery? If that was the case the F1 would never be sold. But let stick to the term F1 the easy forgery, no need to changes something that have worked for years. F1 the easy Forgery.
• F1: BEL in Belgium, is in the centre of the sector and have the same placement as the rest of the letters  False
Genuine• F1: 2 in 20 at the left little notch in the scroll of the 2 is not present, little excavation in the ornamental leaf at the food of the 2 is also missing
  False Genuine • F1: Coloured point at the right side of the 0 in 20 also in the left value 20, the point is missing   False Genuine • F1: Only the letters U an E in BELGIQUE should be touching each other the second E is closed and should be open, EL in BELGIUQUE is touching and the standup line of L is to long is app. at the middle of the G   Genuine False • F1: The Scroll Right to the second E is broken in the middle and is well formed, F1 the Scroll right is deform and is almost missing   Genuine False • F1: The beginning of the foot of the 2 in the 20 do not touch the scroll and the point to the right in the 0 is also missing. • F1: The Squares around BELGIE is not well printed and also around the shields. The crosses are bright red, the letters also are not connected one another.
 Genuine
False• F1: The Cedilla in Q is drawn verry badly and almost looks like an O, as you can see the Cedilla has NO space in both sides.   Genuine False
Forgery F2 False stamp 20 C+ 20 C violet Easy Forgery The F2 easy forgery have all the same characteristic as the F1, the only thing which is different is the Scroll after E in BELGIOQUE. Forgery F2 False stamp 20 C+ 20 C violet Easy Forgery
 • F2: The 2 at the right, the scroll globe touches the 2 above the foot. Forgery F3 False stamp 20 C+ 20 C violet Easy Forgery The F3 easy forgery have all the same characteristic as the F1, the only thing which is different is there is a cedilla in the Q in BELGIQUE, another thing might be the squares (raster) around BELGIE and the shadows, this is not a dangerous forgery which I will show Next, but first the F3 easy forgery. Forgery F3 False stamp 20 C+ 20 C violet Easy Forgery
This is Not the Dangerous false stamps but this copy is very well made, many would have placede it in the category the Dangerous type of the Merode, but it has all the signs as for the type I falsification.
• F3: The scroll is nicely formed but do not touch at the base • F3: The Q in BELGIQUE have a small Cedilla if you could call it that, still is closed. This is all you need to know about the Easy Forgery in the 20 C + 20 C Mérode COB 128, I hope you only buy the false stamps because you need the reference, there is a litte bit other signs at the real stamps, but it will be a "sleeper" if I had to go tthrough it all. You have all it takes not to make mistakes, you have the tool to tell sellers about the false Mérode when they try to sell it as genuine and they might concider the prize or have the stamp certifiede. Hope you have enjoyed the first two parts, the Real Mérode and the Easy falsification of the Mérodee type I, II and III. |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 9, 2023 21:40:48 GMT
Mérode 20c + 20C violet unperforated Quiz time This is a Mérode unperforated, the question is, Genuine or False? If False which type F1, F2 or F3.
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 10, 2023 11:15:13 GMT
The Answer to the Quiz Nr. 1 Was Easy Forgery F3. Next: Mérode 20c + 20C violet unperforated Quiz time Nr. 2This Mérode is at lilla paper and is a very nice copy of an Essay or a Colourproof, True or False? if false, is it then a F1, F2 or F3 |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 11, 2023 10:25:41 GMT
The Answer to quitz nr 2, was Easy Forgery F1. Forgery The Dangerous False stamp 20 C+ 20 C violet The Dangerous Mérode forgery can be difficult to differentiate from the genuine 20 C+ 20 C Mérode as many of the general characteristics also can be found at the Dangerous Forgery. I will try an explain how to see the deviations and hopefully collectors will avoid buying a dangerous type instead of a real Mérode 20 C + 20 C.
• Many Collectors trying to describe the false Mérode starts out with the left upper value circle and try to tell you that there is no notch in the 2 or dot in the 0, let us take a closer look at this one. Genuine There is a coloured dot in the 0, but difficult to see It is very small but it there, mostly missing. • No point at the Right 0 in the right upper value circle. Genuine Dangerous Lilla dot missing • Ribs of the Leaf over BEL not velformede. Genuine False • Shaded lines near BELGIE not clearly printed Genuine False • The Line In the right scroll after E in BELGIQUE can be broken in three pieces, is missing, is shorter or is not present/missing Genuine FalseThis was the dangerous Type of the Mérode 20 C + 20 C. The 5 C and the 10 C is a chapter for it self.
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 29, 2023 11:25:24 GMT
Mérode 5C+5C Green Genuine Stamp Perforated: 14. Is also known unperforated WM: None Gum: Thin and shiny, crackled which form a pattern of sloppy stripes Paper: Granular, cream-coloured (5 and 10 cent) or rosy-purple (20 cent). Influenced by light or water the latter becomes cream-coloured. The paper as you can see change over the years we have to remember the stamp is more than 100 years old. You probably all know the characteristic of the genuine 5 C. but let us have a look at how to determine a genuine stamp.  • The Cedilla in Q is drawn verry clearly this is what it looks like in the 5 C, (The appearance of the Cedilla is different from each in the three values) as you can see the Cedilla has space in both sides and is well formed.  • The Letters B and E in BEGLGIQUE do not touch same as in the other values  • The Scroll After BELGIQIQUE is velformede, we can see one or two and sometimes more point the foot is thinner but not broken.  • The Squares (Looks like raster squares from steelprint) around BELGIE and the shields and shadows beneath BELGIE the squares are verry visible. The crosses have right angles and the compact pale-red colour covers the whole surface very well, without lacks or crackx. The letters touches each other at the buttom.  Other Characteristics at the Mérode 5 C + 5 C Green Genuine • The Letters EL and UE Touches one-another at the upper and underside, the second E is closed and a white touches the right scroll Before the 5. The Slope Line of the L is short. BELGIQUE is in the centre of the sector.  • The descending line of the left 5 is thinner on the upper vertical side but not broken and is slightly bend, there is a colour dot in this one, but it is genuine.  • The Leaf above the first E in BELGIQUE is well-formed and is not closed to this letter.  F1 the easy Forgery 5C+5C Mérode Green
• The Descending line of the Left 5 has no thining and is straight.  • BELGIQUE is closer to the upper line/top of the section, The Leaf above BEL almost touches the E, B in BELGIQUE is Closer to E, the standup Line in L is too long, the second E do not touch the right scroll with at white Line the Cedilla is missing and makes the Q look like an O.  • The Shaded lines around and above BELGIE is filled and not well formed.  • The Shade lines between the legs of the front soldier is sharped shaped at the genuine stamp but not at the F1   Genuine False All other features are the same F2 the Dangerous Forgery 5C+5C Mérode Green The Dangerous Forgery looks like the genuine stamp most of the features are identical but there is 5 characteristics which can determine the “Dangerous” forgery, as you all know my opinion is, all forgery is dangerous if you do not know what to look for, hope you will never buy a false Mérode unless you want one in your collection. • The Dangerous Forgery it is can be harder to determine than the F! easy forgery but you all know what to look for. F2 the Dangerous Forgery 5C+5C Mérode Green
 • The descending line of the left 5 is broken or has a thinning, the foot can be frequently broken.  • Shorter or broken line the volute above the right 5, Bent circle almost disappear in the little circle above right  • Printing is not well done, as it is with the F1 Forgery the lines between the legs of the standing soldier is not well made.  • The shaded line above and left of BELGIE is not well formed.  This is the features I have chosen for the False F2 Mérode, the rest of the features are in generally the same some also use the Cedilia as it seems to be a little bit shorter at dangerous F2 forgery. Hope you Know the F2. |
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Post by viking1234 on Dec 29, 2023 11:39:31 GMT
As you all can see the Mérode stamps comes in all sorts of colours this is F1 and F2 Forgery, with perforations and without. Some of this stamp is sold as proof, could be but then it is of false stamp production. Hope you enjoy the lot, I just bought 6 more, by the way, there is also false Postmarks on genuinestamps, and false postmarks at false stamps but that is another storry.  |
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Post by viking1234 on Feb 9, 2024 19:51:30 GMT
Mérode 10C+10C Red Genuine Stamp Perforated: 14. Is also known unperforated WM: None Gum: Thin and shiny, crackled which form a pattern of sloppy stripes Paper: Granular, cream-coloured (5 and 10 cent) or rosy-purple (20 cent). Influenced by light or water the latter becomes cream-coloured. The paper as you can see change over the years we have to remember the stamp is more than 100 years old. You probably all know the characteristic of the genuine 10 C. but let us have a look at how to determine a genuine stamp.
Mérode 10C+10C Red Genuine Stamp
 Mérode 10C+10C Position 7 Sheet 2 Mérode 10C+10C Red Genuine Stamp
• The Cedilla in Q is drawn verry clearly this is what it looks like in the 10 C, (The appearance of the Cedilla is different in the three values) as you can see the Cedilla has space in both sides and is well formed. • The Letters B and E in BEGLGIQUE do not touch same as in the other values. The leaf above E almost touch the top of the first E in BELGIQUE
• The Scroll After BELGIQIQUE is velformed, It is different in all three values. • The Squares (Looks like raster squares from steelprint) around BELGIE and the shields and shadows beneath BELGIE the squares are verry visible. The crosses have right angles and the compact pale-red colour covers the whole surface very well, without lacks or crackx. The letters touch each other at the buttom, white line under the second E in BELGIE. Other Characteristics at the Mérode 10 C + 10 C Red Genuine
• The Letters EL and UE Touches one-another at the upper and underside, the second E is open. The Slope Line of the L is short. BELGIQUE is in the top of the sector, the leaf over the E almost touch the E. • The Leaf above QU in BELQI[QU]E forms a straight line  • Two lines or rows in the 0 of 10 in the right corner, there is a semicircular line in the scroll above 10 
F1 the easy Forgery 10 C+10 C Mérode Red
• Two lines or rows in the 0 of 10 in the right corner is missing, the semicircular line in the scroll above 10 is not as well formed as at the genuine stamp.   Genuine False • The Letters EL and UE Touches one-another at the upper and underside, the second E is Closed. The Slope Line of the L is Long. BELGIQUE is in the Middle of the sector and the Leaf above the first E in BELGIQUE has more distance.  False  Genuine • The Shaded lines around and above BELGIE is filled and not well formed., the white line under the Second E in BELGIE is missing  False  Genuine • F1: The Cedilla in Q is drawn very badly and almost looks like an O, as you can see the Cedilla has no space in both sides.   Genuine False • F1: The Leaf above QU in BELGI[QU]E do not form a straight line   Genuine False There is one thing most collectors of false mérode have overlooked at the genuine stamp there is a little notch in the left circle just to the left of the foot at 1 in 10   Genuine False F 2 the Dangerous forgery 10 C+10 C Mérode Red
The Dangerous forgery looks like the genuine stamp most of the features are identical, but there is a few difference in the design. F2 the Dangerous forgery 10 C+10 C Mérode Red
 F2: Printet at cardboard and sold as colour proof and Genuine print. The colour is red more than the genuine stamp • Two lines or rows in the 0 of 10 in the right corner is missing, the semicircular line in the scroll above 10 is not as well formed as the genuine stamp the line is broken   Genuine False • The Letters EL and UE Touches one-another at the upper and underside, the second E is open. The foot Line of the L is a little thin. The details of the leaf not as clear as at the genuine stamp, the cedilla is shorter. The leaf over QU is at a straight line as you can see but the leaf is not well formed.  False  Genuine • F2 Printing is not well done, as it is with the F1 Forgery the lines between the legs of the standing soldier is not well made.   Genuine False • The Shaded lines around and above BELGIE is filled and not well formed., the white line under the Second E in BELGIE is present.  False  Genuine This is the end of the Mérode 10 C + 10 C. forgery F1 and the dangerous type F2. I will Show you some more of my collection of the Mérode forgery later. |
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