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Post by msindc on Jan 22, 2024 18:27:49 GMT
OK. I have a Scotts page that holds 32 stamps and 10 spots are vacant. I've got two blocks of 4 unused stamps, one with selvage on two edges and one with selvage on one edge, both with serial numbers on the selvage, for one of the spots. (These are 803.) Do I break one of the blocks to put a stamp in its spot on the page? Put the entire block on the page? Do nothing and wait to buy or find a single?
Micah
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,051
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 22, 2024 18:54:30 GMT
OK. I have a Scotts page that holds 32 stamps and 10 spots are vacant. I've got two blocks of 4 unused stamps, one with selvage on two edges and one with selvage on one edge, both with serial numbers on the selvage, for one of the spots. (These are 803.) Do I break one of the blocks to put a stamp in its spot on the page? Put the entire block on the page? Do nothing and wait to buy or find a single?
Micah Opinion. These are common stamps, wait for an 803 to arrive. My general stance, you are just a custodian of your stamps, once damaged, broken down, reduced, then so is the value, economically and historically, leave well alone. Certainly make an album page for blocks with marginal markings. Only soak stamps that you intend to mount in your album. Soaking all stamps is just a waste of time. Learn to accept album page with blank spaces, a completed album page is a delight, but "pretty" is a fleeting appreciation.
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DrewM
**Member**
Posts: 32
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Post by DrewM on Jan 29, 2024 20:40:20 GMT
For all common (or relatively common) stamps, meaning modern stamps, that I need I rarely hesitate to break off a single stamp from a multiple. This is for modern stamps available in large quantities. In most cases, the multiple is not worth more than "x times the number of stamps" so doing so does not affect value. If it's a much older stamp or an unusual stamp or has interesting marginal markings, on the other hand, I would not do that. I'd mount it as is. I think there's a bit too much reverence in stamp collecting for barely touching things and never breaking up blocks of stamps is one of those things, as if they were the Holy Grail. All stamps come in sheets, and those sheets get torn apart. Breaking up a block doesn't bother me since I'm just continuing that process.
On the stranger end of this are many German collectors who seem absolutely obsessed with collecting selvage. I've purchased a number of collections of modern German stamps to complete my postwar German collection. They're all very common modern stamps, cheaper to buy as collections than as sets or singles, but I had no idea how often German stamps are collected with their selvage still attached. Maybe someone can explain this odd habit to me? And much of that selvage is just plain white paper with not even a design on it.
When the selvage has an interesting design on it, and when that adds to the stamp in some way, I try to leave it on. Otherwise to me it's just excess paper to clutter up my album pages. Blank or pointless selvage, I just tear off. I'm a stamp collector, not a selvage collector. If the selvage is interesting or of some value, I leave it. Otherwise, I remove it.
I also remove any remnants of envelopes from the back of stamps I want to mount -- soaking them in warm water. I hate mounting thick, messy stamps which are still stuck to paper as some collectors do. I straighten bent perfs -- gently. I carefully trim off the "fuzzy" edges of messy perfs. I remove stray "perforation holes" which never fell off. When I do it safely, I remove old hinge remnants. And so on. I don't like messy stamps in my collection. When something can't be done safely, of course, I don't attempt it.
I don't consider myself a passive archivist who just accepts what I get. I consider myself a caretaker who at least tries to fix obvious stamp problems so my stamps can be saved by future collectors in the best shape. With very old (prewar) stamps, I leave the imperfections alone.
Each to their own. If you like to collect selvage, then collect selvage! Sorry, I meant to say "Wenn du Selvage sammeln möchtest, dann sammle Selvage!"
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renden
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Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Jan 29, 2024 21:02:23 GMT
Selvage does not impress me unless it contains some information I have never broken a block or a sheet to have a space filler (God bless me !!) These stamps always come back and usually are of low C.V. ........so If breaking , instead will buy one cheap....... The selvage without info might go....depends on the issue etc Have fun doing what you prefer.......do not break the block
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DrewM
**Member**
Posts: 32
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Post by DrewM on Jan 29, 2024 22:08:30 GMT
If I can find a single for my collection, of course I'd buy it. But for modern stamps, there's nothing sacred about a block of four. If I've looked for a single stamp for a long time and the only available stamp is a block, I buy the block and take one stamp from it for my album. With some countries, for years a single stamp is simply unavailable -- but I find a block of four. The three remaining stamps go into my duplicates stock book or get sold. Thus helping solve the problem of other collectors being unable to find a single!
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Jan 29, 2024 22:18:37 GMT
Selvage does not impress me unless it contains some information What do selvage, Rodney Dangerfield, and k have in common? All get no respect... k
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,912
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 29, 2024 22:24:48 GMT
I respect you, khjVery much, in fact!
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jan 30, 2024 7:30:27 GMT
Selvage does not impress me unless it contains some information What do selvage, Rodney Dangerfield, and k have in common? All get no respect... k renden & khjCollectors of early Israel might disagree ! Londonbus1
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Post by gstamps on Jan 30, 2024 8:41:08 GMT
Selvedge without markings can indicate the position in the sheet. Modern stamps rarely have errors in the design. German collectors look for these errors and the next step is to prove that it is a "plate flaw" - the repeated appearance in a field of the sheet. Once proven to be a plate flaw, they are mentioned in the Michel catalog (not necessarily all found) or in specialized books. Always when I buy a block with selvedge, I check in Michel if "plate flaw" is mentioned on the respective columns or lines of the sheet. There are also happy cases with the stamps in the corners of the sheet - when I know the number of the field. An example with Mi#1806 (July 6, 1995, minisheet 2x5) where in field 10 there is a plate flaw - a black dot in the sailor's boot on the right. In Michel it is mentioned that this plate flaw does not appear in all the prints - probably that more plates were used.
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stanley64
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Posts: 1,985
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 30, 2024 12:13:53 GMT
Perhaps gstamps , whilst the fault is not constant across multiple sheets, I would suggest that the flaw is consistent for a particular sheet within the printing plate itself. How many sheets were prepared and printed from the one plate? Assuming for now, one hundred stamps per plate, producing 10 individual mini-sheets, only one would have with the 'soiled boot'. The question remains though, does the flaw remain constant or does the blemish fade after multiple printings? Have fun and happy collecting!!
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Post by gstamps on Jan 30, 2024 15:23:19 GMT
stanley64, your questions are very good, but I doubt that anyone will answer them. All the minisheets I have seen do not have any particular markings - probably the printing plate has only one minisheet. On modern stamps - sheet 5x10 or 10x10 - the number of the plate still appears at the bottom of the sheet and the number of the sheet on the side.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,051
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 30, 2024 15:43:42 GMT
Blocks selvedge can contain Audit numerals Accountancy numerals "Traffic lights" and colour swatches to establish colour registration Plate Numbers Printers Names Arrows for the guillotine perforation pips Siderographer names Plate finishers initials These can be of interest to some collectors It should always be easier to find a single stamp than a block Just some things to consider before you make your decision. Swiss blocks have lots of this information
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salmantino
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Posts: 266
What I collect: Specialised UK and overprints, Ireland, Netherlands, Spanish permanent stamps.
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Post by salmantino on Jan 30, 2024 17:02:10 GMT
Some blocks are just interesting as they tell you something about how sheets were printed (in panes). These 'gutter' blocks, often are found folded because the sheets did not fit stock books at post office counters unfolded. And the markings in the margin may identify different printers.
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salmantino
Member
Posts: 266
What I collect: Specialised UK and overprints, Ireland, Netherlands, Spanish permanent stamps.
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Post by salmantino on Jan 30, 2024 17:05:03 GMT
In Spain, blocks are relatively popular. They even produce album pages for them.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,985
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 30, 2024 17:21:35 GMT
stanley64 , your questions are very good, but I doubt that anyone will answer them. All the minisheets I have seen do not have any particular markings - probably the printing plate has only one minisheet.
The question, although perhaps 'very good', was more rhetorical in nature, as the answer is not likely to be found outside of a specialised study.
Earlier in the week, I was reviewing a study of the "Vampire Bite" variety found on the 3¢ Small Queen of Canada as shown here on Mr. W.G. Burden's page here and was thinking the flaw on the Carl Orff stamp could be a similar occurrence, where a bit of ink has fallen on the plate and after a small number of impressions, the ink blob would finally dissipated. Just armchair thinking on my part ;-)
As for printing, with a print run of almost 60.000.000 stamps for this one issue, I would suspect that the plate had 10, or perhaps even 20 panes, as part of its layout. Depending on the plate size, the 'soiled boot' variety would still be a small portion of the final run.
In any case, a nice find and no doubt, a welcome addition to one's collection...
Have fun and happy collecting!!
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Post by gstamps on Jan 31, 2024 7:25:02 GMT
stanley64, my stamp is offset printed not engraved. Considering the large number of stamps printed, I suspect that larger, higher-speed machines are used. These are fed with large rolls of paper and the individual minisheet are separated and trimmed afterwards. So, as you anticipated, there are several panes. It is possible that one of these panes has a defect for the black color and this black point constantly appears in an area of another color. It is possible that this defect appears constantly during the entire printing period - but not on all minisheets - that's why the mention "teilauf" appears in Michel. All catalogs have mistakes, but from my experience I don't think that Michel mentions a printing error as a "plate flaw". German collectors are often grouped in working groups where they meticulously analyze the proofs before they are published in Michel or in specialized books (unfortunately I do not know German and the translations are not successful and I cannot participate in these groups as I would like)
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Post by msindc on Feb 7, 2024 11:20:46 GMT
This conversation has certainly meandered! I’ve enjoyed reading it. I’m not sure, though, that the comments as a whole have convinced me that I should keep the block together. Let’s say it’s a 1910 or 1920 issue. Not super rare but also not available anywhere and everywhere, so to speak. Maybe sells for less than, say, $10, so the market does not view it as highly desirable. I think I’d break the block. Holding it intact is not safeguarding something that needs to be protected.
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Post by aram528 on Feb 29, 2024 19:08:46 GMT
OK. I have a Scotts page that holds 32 stamps and 10 spots are vacant. I've got two blocks of 4 unused stamps, one with selvage on two edges and one with selvage on one edge, both with serial numbers on the selvage, for one of the spots. (These are 803.) Do I break one of the blocks to put a stamp in its spot on the page? Put the entire block on the page? Do nothing and wait to buy or find a single?
Micah Hello Micah In what little I know of philately, I would generally leave the two blocks of 4, as you yourself specify each has different edges.
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