Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 5, 2024 0:31:09 GMT
vikingeck ... thanks for sharing your covers of départements 86 and 92. Here's one from Sion, the principal town of département conquis 127 - Simplon. The letter is written in French and is dated August 29, 1812. It was sent from Sion to Monthey, just under 50Km to the north. There is no arrival date stamp or, if there was one, the ink has completely faded with time. Under a microscope there is, perhaps, some evidence of black ink. There is a '2' on the front of the cover. That makes sense as the postal rate would have been 2 décimes for a letter like this (<6g and a distance of <50km). The text suggests that the writer, a M. Emil Barberin is corresponding with M. Jean-Michel de Torrenté [ Edited thanks to franoise ] to arrange a site visit to inspect a villa that M. de Torrenté is building in Sion. This department is an interesting one. The people in the area were inspired by the French Revolution and joined the Helvetic Republic. However, local 'counter revolutionary' elements continued to create chaos and the French intervened in 1801/2 and set up the Rhodanic Republic. Eventually Napoleon just annexed the area in 1810. The Austrian army occupied Sion in December 1813 and in 1815 the canton was returned to Switzerland - but that's another story. It was written on a very solid and durable piece of laid paper. ![](https://i.ibb.co/Yp5mmWZ/Dept-Conquis-127-Sion.jpg)
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Post by franoise on Jul 5, 2024 4:03:45 GMT
The recipient's name is Jean-Michel de Torrenté
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 5, 2024 10:07:07 GMT
The recipient's name is Jean-Michel de Torrenté franoise … Much appreciated, thank you! (That second ‘r’ instead of an ‘s’ makes a big difference - smile)
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 10, 2024 11:49:36 GMT
Two more département conquis covers arrived in the mail yesterday. I'm still reviewing them but it led me down the path of trying to sort out postal rates in France (and, therefore, the départements conquis in Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Italy and Spain) between 1793 and 1815. I've found information on some of the rates during this period, but it gets confusing before 1802. I'm still trying to source the original tarif documents. I'm having some difficulty finding them, if anyone has a copy or a link I'd appreciate the help. However, here's what I have so far from various sources: 1 - Tarif du 24 Avril, 1806 April 24, 1806 to the end of the First EmpireUnlike the earlier rates, there is now a rate split between 0-50 and 50-100 KM. For letters weighing less than 6g 0-50 KM 2 décimes 50-100 3 100-200 4 200-300 5 300-400 6 400-500 7 500-600 8 600-800 9 800-1000 10 1000-1200 11
For letters weighing between 6 and 8g 0-50 3 50-100 4 100-200 5 200-300 6 300-400 7 400-500 8 I assume the rates continue from 500KM by adding 1 décmine to the <6g rate, but I have no documentary evidence confirming that.
There must also be a rate for 'heavy' letters or packages but I also don't yet have any information on those rates.
For my purposes, however, the <6g rates seem to account for all of my départment conquis covers mailed after this 'Tarif du 24 Avril, 1806' ... at least so far.
For letter mailed before 1806 ... we have:
2 - Tarif du Premier Thermidor An X From July 20, 1802 to April 25, 1806
For letters weighing less than 6g 0-100 KM 2 décimes 100-200 3 200-300 4 300-400 5 400-500 6 500-600 7 600-800 8 800-1000 9 1000-1200 10
As of yet I have no documented information on items weighing more than 6g. My assuption is that it's one décime more than the <6g rate.
3 - Tarif du Premier Germinal An VIII From March 22, 1800 to July 19, 1802
This seems to be the first time the postal rates were based on the metric system ... grams and KMs
Here, the rates start with letters weighing less than 7g - Note it's 7g not 6g. Otherwise, as far as I can tell the rates are the same as in the 1802 tarif. Not sure if I'm right. But, I have one data point, a letter going between 400-400KM that had a rate of 5 décimes which seems to support my assumption about the rates.
4 - Tarif du 5 Nivose An V From December 25, 1796 to March 21, 1800
I've only got a few data points. And, they're a bit confusing -- even contradictory (as was the revolution itself - smile). I've seen references to both the French imperial system of measurements and some metric. Some of the material I read suggest that postage rates were not standardized in the early years after the revolution.
Here's what I've seen ... For letters of less than ½ oz. travelling within the same départment, 4 sous Less than 1/4 oz going less than 50 lieus ... 3 décimes 10-15g going less than 100 KMs ... 4 décimes ½ to 3/4 oz. 50 centimes (5 décimes)
5 - Tarif de 3 Thermidor An III July 21, 1795 to December 24, 1796 (in theory)
One data point only 1/4 to ½ oz. going less than 20 lieus ... 8 sous
...
The postage rate was indicated with what I calll a 'squiggle' on the front of the cover. They are numbers. Here's a reference for reading them.
![](https://i.ibb.co/0jTrzCX/Screenshot-2024-07-09-at-2-22-37-PM.png) While it's been fun trying to build these tables from scratch, if anyone has the original documentation, I'd love to hear from you.
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Post by gstamps on Jul 10, 2024 16:47:47 GMT
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 10, 2024 17:10:59 GMT
gstamps … wonderful. Thanks. I’ll have a look at this and add it to, or update, my files. Much appreciated! EDIT: I've now had a chance to read the article by Jean-Caude Quennevat. Very interesting. Lots of information about various forms of communication - especially during the Empire. Information about postal volumes, the number of post offices and postal workers ... and the growth between the period just before the revolution and 1821. The volume of mail in France during this period was impressive 30-45 million items per year. Some interesting comments as well about stopping mail to England in 1806 and, in fact, not even allowing letters or packages to "be sent to an Englishman or written in the English language".
It also confirmed my understanding of the basic letter rates for simple letters. It didn't deal with the earlier period (the 1790s) so I'll keep looking.
One thing that was different was that the article had a slightly different dates for some of the postal tarif changes ... not the year, just the month and day. That might be one reason why my earlier searches weren't as productive. I'll try to nail down these new dates. Thanks again.
PS - The map from the archives is very useful for understanding the distance but also the course of the early postal routes.
~1800 to ~1802 For letters weighing less than 7g 0-100 KM 2 décimes 100-200 3 200-300 4 300-400 5 400-500 6 500-600 7 600-800 8 800-1000 9 1000+ 10 = 1Fr
~1802 to ~1806 For letters weighing less than 6g 0-100 KM 2 décimes 100-200 3 200-300 4 300-400 5 400-500 6 500-600 7 600-800 8 800-1000 9 1000+ 10 = 1Fr
~1806 to ~1814 For letters weighing less than 6g 0-50 KM 2 décimes 50-100 3 100-200 4 200-300 5 300-400 6 400-500 7 500-600 8 600-800 9 800-1000 10 = 1Fr 1000-1200 11
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 17, 2024 4:21:13 GMT
I received a new département conquis cover in the mail today. This one was mailed from 'Charleroy' (now Charleroi) to Mons on 7 Messidor Year X (June 26, 1802). Now in Belgium, both towns were then under French occupation and had been since 1794. Mons was the principal city of the new département 86 - lands taken from the Austrian Netherlands. Based on my transcription, the cover is addressed: Au Citoyen Dellainne, Directeur de la Regie général d'affaires rue des dominicains No. 30 à Mons That is, "To Citizen Dellainne, Director of General Admistration Policy, Number 30, Street of the Dominicans, in Mons" ... feel free to improve my translation. According to the State Archives of Belgium (Mons, civil registration), the wife of a Florent Joseph Dellainne gave birth to a son, in Mons, around this time. Florent Joseph may or may not be the person to whom the letter was sent. Notice that it was sent to Citoyen Dellainne. Using this form of address began around 1792 but started to decline by 1802. It was still common, especially in official correspondence, until the rise of Napoleon. I find it amusing that inside, away from the eyes of others, the letter itself was addressed to Monsieur Dellainne. An example, perhaps, of how hard it is to change the everday practices of popular culture. In any event, whether citizen or 'my sire', Dellainne was responsible for administrative policy in the département. That is, questions about taxes and the accounting of state revenues. I subsequently found another cover that had been addressed to him, in Mons, that was posted by another collector on a German Language forum similar to TSF - Forum für Altpostgeschichte und Markenfreu(n)de Deutscher Altbriefsammler-Verein e.V. This is a group of early postal history and letter enthusiists. They have a number of recent postings on various départments conquis - especially the ones in Germany. If you're interested, here's a link: www.altpostgeschichte.de/index.php?board/244-départements-conquis/&pageNo=1The postal marking, a handstamp in black ink, is P86P CHARLEROY. In other words, the cost of postage had been pre-paid. The 'P' on either side of the department number stands for 'Post Payé' The only other marking is the word, 'franco' on the top right hand corner. A line has been drawn above and below the word. I haven't seen this before. I assume it means it was an 'official' letter and no postage was required. The P86P stamp therefore just confirmed that the postage was essentially paid. Just a guess. Feel free to jump in. As expected the letter deals with financial matters. It seems to have been signed by someone named Legroi (?). I haven't found anything on him yet. ![](https://i.ibb.co/3SvnDbF/D-Conquis-84.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/MPrpKHB/D-Conquis-84-1.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/VJdxJSD/D-Conquis-84-2.jpg)
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Post by franoise on Jul 17, 2024 5:25:25 GMT
About the signature : most likely "Legros"
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kasvik
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Post by kasvik on Jul 17, 2024 8:34:49 GMT
I received a new département conquis cover in the mail today. In other words, the cost of postage had been pre-paid. The 'P' on either side of the department number stands for 'Post Payé' The only other marking is the word, 'franco' on the top right hand corner. A line has been drawn above and below the word. I haven't seen this before. I assume it means it was an 'official' letter and no postage was required. The P86P stamp therefore just confirmed that the postage was essentially paid. Just a guess. Feel free to jump Keep the departement conquis coming. They are marvelous to see, pushing my appreciation further into the past than I usually get.
Right; Franco = pre-paid. Later it often was replaced with PD (Payement jusqu'a destination, to the street address) or PP (Payement Patielle or Port Paye, to the final post office only).
The street address (PD) also is interesting back when virtually all mail was general delivery only. Obviously it went to a bigwig, which makes the street address seem even more superfluous. Maybe it's there mostly to show importance.
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 17, 2024 9:12:39 GMT
Nice one! This has some tantalising interesting references Hugh . Needs translation so don’t dismiss it as merely “financial matters” I have only picked out the odd phrase here and there so far, so needs someone like franoise to expand it . the dates mentioned are revolutionary calendar “by a letter of 12 ventose past “ And in the post script. “ 13 ventose an dix” , year 10 of the republic . Ventose the windy month was February . The letter dateline reads “Charleroy 7 Messidor an dix “. Which is late June 4 months later. the letter mentions. “Cn Laurent Schmitz officier de sante ‘. Citoyen? Laurent Schmitz Medical Officer, living in the town,” And later refers to a surgeon “ chiruguien” and care of the wounded “ blesses” both military and civilian I think the writer in referring to “pieces” is describing some promissory notes which were issued under the authority of the “ministere de guerre” which he wants “liquidation” ie conversion to currency . “Le retard qu’on epreuve dans le liquidations fait un grand tort.” The delay which we find in the payments is a great wrong
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jul 17, 2024 11:47:17 GMT
I received a new département conquis cover in the mail today. HughBeautiful laid paper, almost as pristine as the day it was made. So nice, even the paper mite (Silverfish) have had a nibble. I like the way these papers handle, sort of still firm, and composite they eke quality.
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 17, 2024 12:35:44 GMT
I received a new département conquis cover in the mail today. Hugh Beautiful laid paper, almost as pristine as the day it was made. So nice, even the paper mite (Silverfish) have had a nibble. I like the way these papers handle, sort of still firm, and composite they eke quality. It truly is amazing isn't it? The old handmade papers, made with high-quality fibres really last. I have books from the 18thC and before that look like new. Yet, many of the books from the 19thC were made with cheap paper, newsprint almost, and are falling apart ... turning yellow and brittle. Librarians and archivists are quickly scanning them all. In the last hundred years, it's gotten better but letters like the ones above will still look great hundreds of years from now. You can see the same thing with stamps, covers and postcards. Paper matters. Cheers, PS - Love the word 'eke' ... one so rarely gets to use it in a sentence (smile).
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 17, 2024 12:40:48 GMT
Nice one! This has some tantalising interesting references Hugh . Needs translation so don’t dismiss it as merely “financial matters” I have only picked out the odd phrase here and there so far, so needs someone like franoise to expand it . Thanks ... will do. Looks like you've already translated much of it --- thanks again. I'll work on the rest. Cheers,
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Post by franoise on Jul 17, 2024 14:07:59 GMT
Here is the full French text,except for one word.
Charleroy,le 7 Messidor an dix
Monsieur, Par ma lettre du 12 Ventôse dernier je vous ai fait passer 4 pièces originales constatant que le citoyen Laurent Schmitz,officier de santé demeurant en cette ville,avait été employé dès l'entrée des Français en ce pays,en ladite qualité,à la réquisition du ministre de la guerre et des officiers municipaux alors en fonction pour les prisons dudit lieu comme chirurgien pour le pansement des blessés militaires et civils. Ces pièces vous avaient été envoyées pour être liquidées si c'était possible..Depuis cette époque je n'ai reçu aucune nouvelle à cet égard et ledit Schmitz vient souvent me trouver pour avoir des nouvelles. Veuillez donc,je vous prie,si la liquidation ne peut s'en faire,vous faire renvoyer les pièces.Le retard qu'on éprouve dans les liquidations fait un grand tort. J'ai l'honneur d'être .....
Votre accusé de réception de ces pièces est du 13 Ventôse an dix et celui de la Régie du 26 dudit mois.
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 17, 2024 16:37:47 GMT
Here is the full French text,except for one word. franoise ... thank you so much for this and for the time you spent doing it. Very, very much appreciated! Cheers, PS - Nothing new under the sun, eh? Governments 'stretching their payables'. Of course, the history of this period that I've read suggest that the revolutionary government was always short of money - war is expensive. So, despite wanting to support and export revolution outside France, government directives to civil and military leaders in the field were often focused on the need to exploit occupied territory for goods, services and treasure to be used elsewhere.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jul 18, 2024 0:29:20 GMT
Charleroy, 7 Messidor year ten
Sir, By my letter of 12 Ventôse last I sent you 4 original documents stating that the citizen Laurent Schmitz, health officer residing in this city, had been employed since the entry of the French into this country, in said capacity, at the requisition of the Minister of War and municipal officers then in office for the prisons of the said place as surgeon for the dressing of wounded soldiers and civilians.
These items were sent to you to be liquidated if possible. Since that time I have not received any news in this regard and the said Schmitz often comes to find me for news.
Please therefore, if the liquidation cannot be carried out, have the parts returned to you. The delay we are experiencing in the liquidations is doing great harm. I have the honor to be...
Your acknowledgment of receipt of these documents is dated 13 Ventôse year ten and that of the Régie is dated 26 of the said month.
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Jul 27, 2024 12:49:21 GMT
Sismano, right Why Narni and not Terni, which was a bigger town? But, yes, Sismano I've just updated the album page I did for this cover and I thought I'd try to close the loop on your questions about 'why Narni?' My opinon only. The letter was written in Sismano, a place with a wonderful history as a tiny village / border fortification. I think the writer passed it to someone going to a town large enough to have a post office - Narni. Why Narni and not Termi? Narni was closer to Rome -- the final destination. Termi was further north and in the opposite direction. ![](https://i.ibb.co/hKYkWRp/Screenshot-2024-07-27-at-8-28-47-AM.png) I’m updating my départmet conquis album pages as I get more information and based on the discssions on TSF. Thanks to you and franoise I've updated this one. In the album, the page is followed by the cover itself. ![](https://i.ibb.co/KN58jNq/D-partement-Conquis-87.jpg)
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Aug 1, 2024 23:35:10 GMT
Last week, the mail brought another occupation cover from the French Empire under Napoleon. Département Conquis 106 – La Merengo – was one of four created in the Piedmont area of Italy. Exporting their own revolution, the Republica Piemontese was established by France in 1798. However, with Napoleon busy in Egypt, the republic was overturned by the Austrians and Russians in 1799. After Napoleon’s return, and subsequent campaign in Italy, the new departments were created from the short-lived republic and annexed to France on April 2, 1801. The following cover is being sent from Asti to Grenoble, a distance just over 300 KM. The postal rate, handwritten on the cover, is 5 décimes – the then current rate for a letter of less than 6g going a distance of between 200-300 KM. Asti is just east of Turin. It’s a very old town. The name means ‘hill’ in the ancient Celtic language spoken by the people subdued by the Romans in 174BC. It was probably a hill-fort then and it’s pretty much been a fortified town ever since. It's seen a lot of occupations over the centuries. It had even been occupied by the French before – back in the 14th century. The letter inside was written, in French, on July 1, 1809 and is addressed to the Mayor of Grenoble. The handwriting is a bit heavy. It needs transcribing. Why, one wonders, was it sent to the Mayor? That’ll be a fun task for another day. I’ll put in in the pile and wait until it’s either a rainy day or is just too hot to venture outside. ![](https://i.ibb.co/s1RGvKn/OC-Genoble.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/Q8pYmKW/OC-Genoble-1.jpg) ![](https://i.ibb.co/hcqRbh7/OC-Genoble-2.jpg)
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Post by gstamps on Aug 2, 2024 13:23:29 GMT
Hugh, I tried a little to decipher the writing. Not being a native Frenchman, there are many paragraphs left unknown. In my opinion, based on the 3 phrases identified below, it is an anonymous letter criticizing a marriage of a veteran soldier with a low-class girl....a miserable gesture in my opinion. Je vous previens mr. que le soldat veteran Claude Erempeau de notre comune est pret a contracter mariage avec une fille qui lui ne ?corespond pas pour dif.erents motifs....... =I warn you sir that the veteran soldier Claude Erempeau of our commune is ready to marry a girl who does not correspond to him for various reasons........ Cette fille est une servante..... Ce pourquoi je ne met mon nom.... =This girl is a servant..... That is why I do not put my name....
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Aug 2, 2024 14:00:50 GMT
Hugh , I tried a little to decipher the writing. Not being a native Frenchman, there are many paragraphs left unknown. In my opinion, based on the 3 phrases identified below, it is an anonymous letter criticizing a marriage of a veteran soldier with a low-class girl....a miserable gesture in my opinion. Je vous previens mr. que le soldat veteran Claude Erempeau de notre comune est pret a contracter mariage avec une fille qui lui ne ?corespond pas pour dif.erents motifs....... =I warn you sir that the veteran soldier Claude Erempeau of our commune is ready to marry a girl who does not correspond to him for various reasons........ Cette fille est une servante..... Ce pourquoi je ne met mon nom.... =This girl is a servant..... That is why I do not put my name.... O that’s marvellous. Thanks … transcribing the rest of it has just become far more important. (smile). Le plus ça change … eh? Sadly, there are always nasties among us.
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Aug 14, 2024 15:51:03 GMT
Just arrived in the mail yesterday, another stampless cover from Département 104. Department 104 was one of five Départements Conquis created by the French on September 11, 1802 after the annexation of the short-lived Subalpine Republic in the Piedmont Region of Italy. Intially known as the Département de l'Éridan, the name was changed to simply Le Pô. It's principal town was Turin (Torino). My first Department 104 cover was this one: ![](https://tsfimagehost.net/images/2024/08/14/61230436dd2cfc56353e488ec0860430.jpg) It was written in Turin on May 20, 1809 and sent, in French, to M. L'Abbé Jean Negri a student at the seminary at Verceil about 73KM south. Postal rates had gone up in 1806 and the tarif for a letter of less than 6g going less than 100KM was 3 décimes. As was usual the letter was send as an unpaid letter. The rate that had to be paid was handwritten on the front. There is also a black handstamp 104 / TURIN. The cover I received yesterday, on the other hand, was sent post payé ... postage paid. ![](https://tsfimagehost.net/images/2024/08/14/7792ee486b31de4580ea97727854c5af.jpg) This one was written on May 18, 1804 in Turin and posted, in Italian, to Sig. Paraua in Genova [Genoa]. The distance between the two towns was about 170KM. At this time, the postal rate for a letter of less than 6g going a distance of between 100 and 200KM was 3 décimes - this was before the postal rate increase. This rate, was handwritten on the back of the cover and, on the front, was a black handstamp P104P / TURIN. This 'P' on each side of the department number indicated that the postal rate had been prepaid. ![](https://tsfimagehost.net/images/2024/08/14/f1491794471ec55b78aee77c5b28e4f6.jpg) The 1804 TURIN stamp is 26mm long ... the one from 1809 is 22mm. Both are the same height.
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 14, 2024 16:30:24 GMT
This week I am weeping in frustration. I saw a nice Depts conquis 85 on Delcampe which I was able to bid on and won at a decent (inexpensive) price , all whilst on tour in Ireland .
I subsequently tried to log in to pay, but my nickname and pass word which I have used on Delcampe for 10 years was not recognised, Three attempts to reset to a new password found me completely locked out of Delcampe . Now I cannot reset my password , cannot log in , cannot pay for the cover with no way back in. My hoped for purchase lost and my seller no doubt calling me names for being a non paying time waster.
how do I get Delcampe to respond ?
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 14, 2024 17:07:54 GMT
Alex I have communicated with htem before and gotten a very quick response. Scroll to the very bottom of their "front page" and under services you will see Contact us Stan or maybe just click link
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 14, 2024 17:31:07 GMT
Yes stainlessb . I already did that twice 4 days ago got the message that due to Summer holidays they were expecting long delays in replying………so far nothing ! I’ll try again. Got the same “customer services” proforma I have already filled in twice ….. no use! EDIT. Got an email again saying it will take longer to reply due to summer season
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 14, 2024 18:05:34 GMT
i must have contacted them off-season!?
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Hugh
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Post by Hugh on Aug 14, 2024 18:27:46 GMT
This week I am weeping in frustration. I saw a nice Depts conquis 85 on Delcampe which I was able to bid on and won at a decent (inexpensive) price , all whilst on tour in Ireland . I subsequently tried to log in to pay, but my nickname and pass word which I have used on Delcampe for 10 years was not recognised, Three attempts to reset to a new password found me completely locked out of Delcampe . Now I cannot reset my password , cannot log in , cannot pay for the cover with no way back in. My hoped for purchase lost and my seller no doubt calling me names for being a non paying time waster. how do I get Delcampe to respond ? I feel your frustration ... especially since I don't yet have a Department 85 myself. Sadly, I don't use Delcampe and have little to offer except my well wishes. I hope it all works out.
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kasvik
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Post by kasvik on Aug 15, 2024 1:27:15 GMT
This week I am weeping in frustration. I saw a nice Depts conquis 85 on Delcampe which I was able to bid on and won at a decent (inexpensive) price , all whilst on tour in Ireland . I subsequently tried to log in to pay, but my nickname and pass word which I have used on Delcampe for 10 years was not recognised, Three attempts to reset to a new password found me completely locked out of Delcampe . Now I cannot reset my password , cannot log in , cannot pay for the cover with no way back in. My hoped for purchase lost and my seller no doubt calling me names for being a non paying time waster. how do I get Delcampe to respond ? If nothing else, you win my sympathy. The excessive complexity of the Delcampe platform makes a continuous endless perpetual amateur of me. At each stage in the Delcampe process, I think I know what I'm doing, kind of, and find reassurance in a good outcome. But now and then... oh, dear.
The Delcampe Chat works well enough; page bottom, at Contact Us. If they cannot advise on how to solve, they'll reassure you the problem is entirely your fault, and the solution is beyond comprehension.
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,472
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 30, 2024 14:39:53 GMT
Finally when Delcampe got round to replying, I managed to regain access to my Account and was able to pay the seller. Departement 85 LES ALPES MARITIMES 85 NICE I think the Dateline inside reads " Nice le 30 X 1808" (where the "X" stands for December apparently) ( edit, thanks to franoise ) Draguignan is a town in Provence about 90 Km (55Miles) from Nice Rated "8" decimes. Which seems excessive ? M. Caussemille Aine ( ie.senior) is a Negotiant, ie an agent for the sale of Olive Oils . The letter has a list of prices expected for various quality of oils and indicates that the bad weather and frosts have affected the crop ![](https://tsfimagehost.net/images/2024/08/30/24cb5339e289bce3a3e098a7a629969d.jpg) t The Cover arrived yesterday from France . Compared to the average prices I have seen this was a BARGAIN!
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Post by franoise on Aug 30, 2024 15:28:31 GMT
Not Muele The first letter is a N (compare "Monsieur" and "Nous avons" on the next line) I assume he wrote "NIce le.."
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Hugh
Member
Posts: 441
What I collect: Occupation Stamps and Postal History, Worldwide; Canada, the UK, France and Germany.
Member is Online
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Post by Hugh on Aug 30, 2024 15:34:46 GMT
Finally when Delcampe got round to replying, I managed to regain access to my Account and was able to pay the seller. Departement 85 LES ALPES MARITIMES 85 NICE I think the Dateline inside reads "Muele ? 30 X 1808 (where the "X" stands for December apparently) Draguignan is a town in Provence about 90 Km (55Miles) from Nice Rated "8" decimes. Which seems excessive ? Hi Alex vikingeck glad everything worked out with Delcampe. A very nice acquisition indeed. Can you educate me about X being December? I know it was the tenth month in Ancient Rome. How did it come to be X in 1808? Love to know more. Could Muele be the name of the sender's villa, business or domicile? Doesn't it mean 'grind' in Spanish. Related to his business? Interesting. Edited based on Franoise's observation. Yeah, 8 decmines is a lot. In 1808 in France and occupied territories, the rate for a letter of less than 6g going between 50 and 100 KM is only 3 decimes. Could there have been enclosures to make it heavier? Or, extra fees of some sort? Also, interesting?
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