REL1948
Member 
Posts: 777 
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, British Empire Postal History, Switzerland Postal History
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Post by REL1948 on Sept 9, 2024 15:10:02 GMT
On Thursday, September 12th, at 6:00 PM EST, (11 PM BST) The British Empire Study Group will present a Free Zoom program entitled:
A Forensic Examination of the Cape Triangles” – Cyanide, Lead and Other Materials on Stamps” with Mike Blum
I’ll be co-hosting the program along with Joan Harmer (of Harmers International).
Registration and additional program information can be found by selecting the following link: go.click.ly/BESG
As always, our programs are recorded and available for FREE on YouTube (usually within 2 weeks following the broadcast).
It would be wonderful to see some of you there in person at the broadcast (say Hello). An open discussion will follow the presentation.
Rob
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Sept 9, 2024 15:13:23 GMT
This sounds great, Rob ( REL1948). I have registered, and I hope to attend at least part of it. |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Sept 9, 2024 15:22:08 GMT
Me too !
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 777
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, British Empire Postal History, Switzerland Postal History
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Post by REL1948 on Sept 13, 2024 1:08:43 GMT
We had a great presentation tonight regarding forensic analysis and Cape of Good Hope triangles. It was wonderful to see Stan Brown (stainlessb), Chris Dorn (Beryllium Guy), Clive (clivel) and Alex (vikingeck). My sincere apology if I missed anyone, I get quite distracted working in the background during the presentations.
We discussed Hydrogen Peroxide. We also touched on the possible effects from testing watermarks depending on the fluid used. It was quite technical at one point but it didn't matter how versed anyone was in the technologies, Mike Blum beautifully described all of the tests in easy to understand terms. For anyone interested that couldn't make it, tonight's presentation should be on YouTube in the next couple weeks.
Rob
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Sept 13, 2024 12:40:41 GMT
Thanks for your post, Rob ( REL1948 ). I enjoyed attending the presentation, and I am looking forward to getting into touch with Mike Blum (the speaker) to see if I can work with him in the future. He has access to some high-tech analytical equipment, which is not so common for philatelic pursuits. Jim Jackson ( jkjblue ) and Hugh Mosher ( hdm1950 ) were also TSF members in attendance. We had quite a good turnout, I thought. 
Edit: Jack Penfold ( capejack) was there, too!  |
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Sept 13, 2024 13:25:46 GMT
 oh yoohooo!
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Sept 13, 2024 13:47:21 GMT
Stan ( stainlessb), you weren't forgotten.... you are the first member mentioned in Rob's ( REL1948) post. He just didn't do an actual tag. Have a look! |
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 777
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, British Empire Postal History, Switzerland Postal History
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Post by REL1948 on Sept 13, 2024 14:20:16 GMT
Thank you for letting me know about our other Forum members at the presentation last night Chris (Beryllium Guy). I'm sorry I missed Jim Jackson (jkjblue ) and Hugh Mosher (hdm1950).
Apologies to Stan (stainlessb) for not formatting the tags correctly (shame on me)...
Hugh, I apologize to you because I saw you on the broadcast but I didn't know it was you because I didn't know your last name was Mosher until just now. Jim, I apologize to you too for not recognizing you. It won't happen again, next time I'll embarrass you both with a hello.
Thank you Alex, Chris, Stan, Clive, Hugh and Jim for attending.
Sincerely,
Rob
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Sept 13, 2024 14:20:30 GMT
well Yoohoo on me! LOL
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Sept 13, 2024 14:46:16 GMT
It was an interesting talk and i was somewhat amused by Mike's reaction to folks using lighter fuel for watermarks, peroxide for reducing the effects of sulfurization, and even the use of a detergent, which i brought up in response to phosphates causing caking on the surface of a stamp he examined... before I checked to discover my dish detergent used doesn't contain phosphates.
I may contact him regarding sending some possible stamps to examine
Don't you wish everyone had a SEM?!
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Sept 13, 2024 16:26:59 GMT
I think Chris and I were hoping for more clarity on the cyanide/ prussiate element in the ink in relation to the blueing or not blueing of the paper with Early and later PerkinsBacon and then De La Rue printings . However it seems he only tested a couple of stamps . The CN was in his Perkins Bacon but not in his DLR samples which is kind of what we were expecting . What we didn’t see was a later PB on white paper and he has not done work on the penny red triangulars.
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,886
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Sept 13, 2024 16:28:16 GMT
Thank you for letting me know about our other Forum members at the presentation last night Chris (Beryllium Guy). I'm sorry I missed Jim Jackson (jkjblue ) and Hugh Mosher (hdm1950).
No need to apologize Rob. I was just glad I remembered to put clothes on before logging in. |
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 777
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, British Empire Postal History, Switzerland Postal History
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Post by REL1948 on Sept 13, 2024 17:11:45 GMT
I think Chris and I were hoping for more clarity on the cyanide/ prussiate element in the ink in relation to the blueing or not blueing of the paper with Early and later PerkinsBacon and then De La Rue printings . However it seems he only tested a couple of stamps . The CN was in his Perkins Bacon but not in his DLR samples which is kind of what we were expecting . What we didn’t see was a later PB on white paper and he has not done work on the penny red triangulars.
Rob |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Sept 13, 2024 17:17:12 GMT
Exactly my thoughts, Alex ( vikingeck) and Rob ( REL1948).... Who knows? If I can get in touch with him, perhaps by next year, he and I will be able to do a joint presentation where we connect the dots between the datapoints and what is already known about how the stamps were printed. I am hopeful and looking forward to that possibility. |
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clivel
Member
Posts: 385
What I collect: Basutoland, Bechuanaland, Rhodesias, South Africa, Swaziland, Israel to 1980, Ireland predecimal, Palestine Mandate
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Post by clivel on Sept 14, 2024 6:36:05 GMT
It was an interesting talk and i was somewhat amused by Mike's reaction to folks using lighter fuel for watermarks, I think Chris and I were hoping for more clarity on the cyanide/ prussiate element in the ink in relation to the blueing or not blueing of the paper with Early and later Perkins Bacon and then De La Rue printings. I enjoyed this talk and found it incredibly interesting. Still, it was clear from the beginning that although Mike's knowledge of FTIR (Fourier Transform Infrared Spectroscopy) and other analytical equipment (which most collectors would never dream of having access to) was excellent, his stamp knowledge was at a much less advanced level, which unfortunately made it difficult for him to understand some of the questions. For example, when one of the attendees was trying to find out if it would be possible to ascertain whether there is any long-term residue when lighter fluid is used to examine watermarks, not being familiar with the watermarking process, Mike more or less missed the point. It would be nice if some of the questions posed to Mike trigger an interest, perhaps prompted by Chris and Stan ( Beryllium Guy & stainlessb ), for him to delve deeper into stamp technology and possibly have a follow-up presentation at a later stage. Clive |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,978
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Sept 14, 2024 9:23:08 GMT
On my shopping list is lighter fluid and was keen to listen to the presentation once posted to learn of the effects using this material for watermark detection. Given clivel 's comment, I am all the more curious and for now, lighter fluid is still on the list and I have this video to fall back on, For now, A quick search of the forum with the phrase 'lighter fluid' found no negatives... Have fun and happy collecting! |
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 777
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, British Empire Postal History, Switzerland Postal History
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Post by REL1948 on Sept 14, 2024 15:25:11 GMT
Hello Clive (clivel),
I don't know if you had a chance to hear Mike's introduction at the beginning of the presentation, but he doesn't have any philatelic affiliations. His interest in the COGH triangles stems from his time in Africa. His strength is in his several Degrees in engineering which he applied to analyze and study those stamps. He's not really a philatelist but I'm sure if we formalize our philatelic questions with supporting material, he'll be able to help us.
We're already considering the possibility of a follow up program some time in the future. Perhaps in conjunction with a program addressing expertization. Stay tuned...
Rob
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clivel
Member
Posts: 385
What I collect: Basutoland, Bechuanaland, Rhodesias, South Africa, Swaziland, Israel to 1980, Ireland predecimal, Palestine Mandate
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Post by clivel on Sept 14, 2024 16:09:14 GMT
I don't know if you had a chance to hear Mike's introduction at the beginning of the presentation, but he doesn't have any philatelic affiliations. His interest in the COGH triangles stems from his time in Africa. Thanks Rob, I was a few minutes late for the presentation, so unfortunately did miss the intro. I hope that my posting didn't come across as too churlish, if so, that was not my intention, as I still found it a fantastic presentation. Besides which it is always nice to hear an accent from back home I was just trying to express the hope that the questions posed to Mike piqued his interest enough for him to take a deeper dive into philately to the benefit of us all.
Clive |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Sept 14, 2024 16:34:29 GMT
Clive ( clivel), for what it's worth, I think your remarks are both fair and perfectly diplomatic at the same time. I agree with you that it was a very interesting presentation, especially the parts about the analytical equipment and the stamps. I was online for Mike's introduction, but I guess it didn't sink in for me that he wasn't at least working with someone to help him correctly identify the stamps he was analyzing. At this point, I think it is clear that if he is willing to team up with someone who understands the philatelic side of things, he should be able to contribute some really useful data to a meaningful study of the Cape Triangles or some other area. I am hoping that person will be me! |
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 777
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, British Empire Postal History, Switzerland Postal History
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Post by REL1948 on Sept 14, 2024 23:11:35 GMT
I don't know if you had a chance to hear Mike's introduction at the beginning of the presentation, but he doesn't have any philatelic affiliations. His interest in the COGH triangles stems from his time in Africa. Thanks Rob, I was a few minutes late for the presentation, so unfortunately did miss the intro. I hope that my posting didn't come across as too churlish, if so, that was not my intention, as I still found it a fantastic presentation. Besides which it is always nice to hear an accent from back home I was just trying to express the hope that the questions posed to Mike piqued his interest enough for him to take a deeper dive into philately to the benefit of us all.
Clive
I loved your remarks and thought they were anything but churlish. Your feelings are well represented and ride with our hope to have Mike help us sometime in the future with his skill and equipment... He will be well guided philatelically when the time comes (Beryllium Guy, (hope)). In my opinion Pandora's box of colours has been given a genuine kick...
Rob |
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oh yoohooo! 
