therealwesty
Member 
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331 
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 11, 2013 16:15:54 GMT
Just caught on the news that Canada post is phasing out door to door delivery of regular mail. As well the price of domestic stamps is going to jump to 85¢ when purchased in booklets, and $1 when purchased individually. The story here: www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/canada-post-to-phase-out-urban-home-mail-delivery-1.2459618The threat of cancelling door to door delivery has been looming for a while now, so this doesn't come as a big surprise. Still, this represents a change in the times for the postal system. Door to door delivery started in 1863 in St. John's Newfoundland at a premium rate of 1¢ for the delivery fee. Today's announcement spells the end of 150 years of the service. This will be the biggest increase in the domestic rate since the Post Office Dept. of the government became Canada Post, a Crown Corporation in 1982. The difference being, the government department operated as a public service to Canadian citizen, funded by our taxes. As a crown corporation Canada Post would become a stand alone business operation with hopes of turning a profit. At the time the basic domestic letter rate nearly doubled from 17¢ to 30¢, and increase of 12¢. The coming increase from 63¢ to 85¢ is a bump of 22¢! Unless you are buying a single, then you will be looking at a 37¢ increase! Thankfully it isn't quite as dramatic as the near doubling of the rate in 1982, but it's still the biggest jump in nominal value ever. |
|
|
|
Post by stampgeezer on Dec 12, 2013 4:17:34 GMT
therealwesty, I know that Canada has permanent stamps, so I imagine that there will be a rush to buy them before the new rate kicks in?
|
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 12, 2013 4:56:04 GMT
We do indeed have the 'permanent' domestic stamps available. These stamps are good for the domestic rate, presumably permanently. I still have most of a roll of 75 Superman stamps, but I will likely buy a roll or two of whatever is available before the new year. I don't do a ton of mailing, so if I can stockpile 100 or so (two rolls of 50) than I should be set for a year or more.
|
|
|
|
Post by stampgeezer on Dec 12, 2013 5:28:45 GMT
When I visited Victoria, last April, I made a point of going to the downtown post office to get whatever they were selling and to mail myself a few covers. I visualized a stately building with huge columns and "Oh Canada" faintly playing in the background. Imagine my surprise when it turned out to be a small hole the wall place. The clerk was very friendly and took the time to show me all the issues she had. I also had a parking ticket when I got back to my car. Oh well, Victoria is still one of my favorite places to visit.
|
|
|
|
Post by stampgeezer on Dec 12, 2013 6:03:48 GMT
I just read on another forum that the sale of permanent stamps will be immediately stopped. I don't know if actually true, though.
|
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 12, 2013 13:19:02 GMT
It looks like I can still order permanent rated stamps from the Canada Post website as of now. I can't imagine they would stop selling the stamps. Typically when we are faced with a rate increase the stamps will continue to be on sale throughout, when the deadline for the rate increase is realized the price just moves to the new rate.
The new rates are due in effect March 31, 2014. Until that point I anticipate the permanent stamps will continue to be on sale at 63¢. After March 31, all permanent stamps will be on sale for 85¢ in booklets or coils, and $1.00 for single stamps.
|
|
|
|
Post by canadianphilatelist on Dec 12, 2013 16:46:34 GMT
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 12, 2013 19:20:10 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by stampgeezer on Dec 12, 2013 20:11:50 GMT
Wow, do you Canadians accumulate mint postage like I do? I have about $120 in us postage from 50's - 90's, all bought for less than face. I will probably not need ever to buy any stamps from our PO.
|
|
Admin
Administrator 
Posts: 2,676
|
Post by Admin on Dec 12, 2013 20:41:10 GMT
Wow, do you Canadians accumulate mint postage like I do? I have about $120 in us postage from 50's - 90's, all bought for less than face. I will probably not need ever to buy any stamps from our PO. Lots of mint discount postage to be found. I probably have $400 worth at the moment, I seem to buy lots that the sellers don't realise its mostly mint. a few years ago I bought a lot that said it had $100 face value turned out to be $225 all of the same 5 cent stamp. A few members have received letters from me with 5 bucks of postage made up of the 5 cent stamps. Still having trouble getting my tongue off the roof of my mouth some days. So Canada post wont issue anymore p stamps, seemed they did that with the hockey stamps having 63c marked on it a little while back, maybe any new issues will have a cent amount. I kind of like seeing the p gone it makes for more interesting stamps as senders will need to use small denominations to make up postage. But then I do like the fact that a P stamp holds it value |
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 12, 2013 21:23:08 GMT
Canada Post pretty well had to pull the Pee stamps. One could make a lot of money selling discount postage with such a rate increase.
I visited some post offices at lunch today and this is what I got:
The local Retail (Corporate) P.O. will not sell any P stamps to customers as regular postage. They WILL sell commemoratives in small quantities to collectors, even definitive booklets. They had plenty of Superman stamps. They WILL sell any quarterly packs they have in stock (they had most 2012 to 2013), and annual souvenir albums.
Shopper's Drug Mart will sell anything they have to collectors, but a maximum of one roll of P stamps per customers.
Safeway and Save-on-Foods only have P booklets, and are selling as usual.
So from a philatelic point of view, this should not cause any abnormal increase in the value of any P stamps.
|
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 13, 2013 3:01:00 GMT
So is Canada Post just not going to sell stamps (to anyone but collectors) until March 31st? That will be good for business.. LMAO!
|
|
firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
|
Post by firstfrog2013 on Dec 13, 2013 3:14:18 GMT
As a collector I applaud the demise of p stamps.I'm sure as consumers residents would like them.The newer p stamps are terrible seems they like to save paper all seem to be size of definitives.Most modern postage is less than interesting as it is without running into those sure to come second and third printing varieties.Our U.S. collectors know all about how crazy it gets looking at ten different stamps with all the same face.
|
|
tomiseksj
Moderator 
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
|
Post by tomiseksj on Dec 13, 2013 3:15:21 GMT
So is Canada Post just not going to sell stamps (to anyone but collectors) until March 31st? That will be good for business.. LMAO! Here is Canada Post's Five Point Action Plan -- it provides more detail than its news release or the media reporting and is an interesting read. With regard to the P stamps, the plan indicates that: |
|
Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,676
|
Post by Admin on Dec 13, 2013 3:47:05 GMT
|
|
Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,676
|
Post by Admin on Dec 13, 2013 21:37:14 GMT
I have a gut feeling that CP will lock the price of a P stamp at 63 cents. At the moment people are buying up P stamps fast wont be long till CP sells off all stock. When the increase happens people will need to add the difference in postage, just my 2 cents.
|
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 14, 2013 14:16:35 GMT
The sale of P stamps right now is suspended. Presently you can't order coils of stamps from the CP website, but you can get booklets. It appears the post office is trying to prevent people from stockpiling the P stamps before the rate increases, but is permitting the sale of small quantities to keep the mail moving and for collectors.
That being said, Michelle managed to find coils of 100 for sale at the corner store postal outlet in our neighborhood. So I have a little stockpile.
Despite the changes, I don't see this as the end of the P stamps. With the two-tier pricing approach the need for non-denominated (P) stamps will continue. I really believe the current freeze on sales is just to prevent everyone from stockpiling postage at the 63¢ rate.
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 14, 2013 15:20:24 GMT
Westy, in my post above, I meant that if you asked the clerks, they would sell you any P stamps you wanted that they have on hand. Just say you are a collector and ask for reasonable amounts. Regular customers are given the new 63c stamps, though at Shopper's Drug Mart they were selling the St Anne "P" Christmas stamp booklet to regular customers.
Shopper's Drug Mart even as of yesterday, was selling rolls of 50 "P" stamps, maximum 1 per customer.
Canada Post is desperately trying to cut costs - I think it is the end of the "P" stamps, but they will remain valid for postage at 63c like Jack said.
What worries me most is how the 85c rate will be implemented.
Will new first class stamps come in two values, 85c and $1?
Will new first class stamps come in the value of 85c but sold singly at $1?
Will new first class stamps come in the value of $1, but sold for 85c if bought in booklets or complete rolls?
The last would be the worst but most profitable for Canada Post. People who use older low value stamps would have to pay $1 per letter instead of 85c
|
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 15, 2013 13:29:17 GMT
So all the speculation and grumbling aside, it appears the new announcement has spawned a couple of varieties.
The baby woodchucks coils originally denominated with the P are being reprinted with 63.
BC, you said the St. Anne Christmas stamp is denominated P in the booklets? My single from the quarterly pack is 63. That's two so far, anyone else know of any stamps being reprinted without the P?
|
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 15, 2013 16:30:12 GMT
Westy, I stand corrected! With my bad eyesight on fine printing, the red 63c looked like the common red "P" for permanent. 
|
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 15, 2013 17:54:39 GMT
Oh shame... I just spent the morning going through all my Christmas mail to see if I had a St. Anne with a P lol. Still on the look out for the wood chucks with 63 though. Found an interesting blurb about a possible conflict of interest with the Canada Post CEO and the so called independent research organization. Have a read here: Now we know the real reason why they are eliminating mail deliveries |
|
BC
Departed
Rest in Peace
Vancouver, BC Canada
Posts: 836
What I collect: Worldwide USED up to the 1960's, later years from countries that came into existence after then, like Anguilla, Tuvalu and Transnistria.
|
Post by BC on Dec 15, 2013 19:17:21 GMT
Westy, the link is broken.
|
|
Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
|
Post by Philatarium on Dec 16, 2013 0:22:52 GMT
|
|
Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,676
|
Post by Admin on Dec 19, 2013 16:40:54 GMT
|
|
tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
|
Post by tomiseksj on Dec 19, 2013 20:01:56 GMT
I love the author's cynicism! |
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 21, 2013 1:07:29 GMT
In talking about this issue with some friends, I happened to remember one of the other rumors that circulated about Canada Post's cost country strategy before the announcement. I seem to remember hearing on the radio that the idea of alternate day delivery was on the table for a while. And though I do usually wish my online stamp purchases would arrive as soon as possible, I personally find this approach would be easier to swallow. Fact is; I don't receive mail every day any way, so ultimately if the letter carriers only visited every other day I don't really think I would notice that much. At least the mail would still be delivered to my home.
Going a little deeper, it has been said in many news articles that cutting the door-to-door delivery would only affect about one third of Canadians, so about 33%. If you think of it, alternate day delivery would affect 100% percent of Canadians, and assuming a Monday/Wednesday/Friday schedule they would be effectively reducing the delivery schedule by 40%. This would probably come pretty close to a real 40% savings in the delivery cost. Even without going door-to-door it will still cost money to get the mail to the CMBs (at 100% of the current 5-day schedule). So the current proposal wouldn't really equate to a 33% savings anyway. Why wasn't this idea given more consideration?
|
|
|
|
Post by canadianphilatelist on Dec 27, 2013 20:40:20 GMT
I have a question. Since the rate change doesn't take place until 31 March 2014, what is to happen to P stamps which are planned for release in the coming months? Will they delay release of the P stamps until 31 March 2014 or will they come out as planned or will they change their rate? FYI here's the 2014 stamp program www.canadapost.ca/cpo/mc/assets/pdf/personal/collect/2014_stamp_program.pdfThe Year of the Horse stamp is scheduled to be a P stamp but it should be out before 31 March 2014. I don't know when the other P stamps would come out. |
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 27, 2013 22:18:01 GMT
Canada Post has reprinted the domestic rate Baby Woodchucks stamps as "63" in coils of 100. As well many of the stamps issued in the last half of 2013 show the "63" denomination rather than the "P". This kind of makes me think that any new issues between now and the rate change will be issues specifically with the "63" denomination. Here's the two woodchuck varieties from the coils of 100 if any one is interested. Left - Original "P" denominated die cut from coil of 100. Issued Jan 14 2013. Right - New "63" denominated from coil of 100 with gutter. Issued Dec 11 2013.  |
|
|
|
Post by canadianphilatelist on Dec 27, 2013 23:59:58 GMT
Omg! Seriously? That's terrible. Is there a list of all the reissued stamps because I'm going to want them all *sigh*
|
|
therealwesty
Member
Inactive
Sorting my Small Queens
Posts: 331
|
Post by therealwesty on Dec 28, 2013 0:49:46 GMT
The Woodchuck is the only one I have seen in real life, but Canada Post has the 2013 Canadian Pride definitive listed in booklets of 63-cent stamps. So there's 5 more. Anyone see any other stamps that have been demoted from "P" to 63-cent? Candian Pride 63-cent |
|
