antoniusra
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Actively pursuing every stamp I do not have and continuing to expand my site.
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Post by antoniusra on Dec 19, 2013 16:06:33 GMT
Was wanting to get some input on the grading of extra and extremely fine stamps that have imprints at bottom.
Every now and again I come across a stamp that is superbly centered. If it has an imprint at the bottom of the stamp I always wonder if I should calculate the margin size from the bottom of the design itself or the bottom of the imprint. I usually choose the former but always second guess myself and even wonder if it makes any difference (especially when considering the next point) . Now most everyone should know there are two ways of looking at the item in the first place. The first is the view from the seller and the second as viewed from the buyer. Please note which view is yours when replying.
Antonius-Ra.com
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Post by spain1850 on Dec 19, 2013 17:30:49 GMT
I'm assuming by "imprint" you are referring to the small, almost micro-printed, letters at the bottom of stamps, that usually consist of a designers name, engraver or a date, or something similar? If so then I personally don't consider them to be part of the main stamp design and shouldn't come into play when determining centering. Just my .10 worth.
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Post by jkjblue on Dec 19, 2013 19:25:03 GMT
How timely!  I was just working on the Spain 1939-47 "Franco" issues, that come both with and without an imprint, and are given separate major numbers by Scott. * I agree that centering is for the stamp image itself, not the imprint. * But the imprint at the foot of the stamp should be clearly visible also.  |
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I.L.S.
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I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
Posts: 2,113
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Post by I.L.S. on Dec 19, 2013 20:07:41 GMT
A-ra do you mean the Bureau of engraving and printing imprint that can be seen in the lower or side margins or an expertisers mark? Maybe I'm misunderstanding?+
I think an example is in order perhaps?
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tomiseksj
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Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,262
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Dec 19, 2013 20:29:27 GMT
These two were close at hand. Neither fits the XF/Superb category but I though a picture might help others visualize the discussion.
I would consider the imprint to be part of the design and, in that case, think the vertical centering of the stamp on the right is better than that on the left.
If one disregards the imprint, then unquestionably the stamp on the left has the better vertical centering.
I'm not sure which is correct but there may be images online of graded stamps bearing imprints that would provide a clue as to how the expertizing bodies view the matter.
I've not been involved in the intentional buying or selling of imprinted stamps but, as a general rule, when buying I disregard the seller's grade and when selling I rarely make an assertion of grade.
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antoniusra
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Actively pursuing every stamp I do not have and continuing to expand my site.
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Post by antoniusra on Dec 20, 2013 0:20:26 GMT
Tomiseksj Thanks for the illustration. Many stamps come with or without the imprint and are listed as such.
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I.L.S.
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Rest in Peace
I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
Posts: 2,113
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Post by I.L.S. on Dec 20, 2013 12:29:35 GMT
So your basically asking if one should consider the inscription as part of the design for centering? Like say if the central design was perfectly centered but the inscription was in the margin would you consider it to be low.
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Post by spain1850 on Dec 20, 2013 15:41:38 GMT
I guess I would be in the camp that thinks the stamp on the left, above, has better vertical centering. Inscriptions, in most cases, are so small that at a casual glance you don't even notice them, which makes the vertical centering stand out even more. If I look at the 2 stamps above, and focus my view at the center of each stamp, the inscription basically disappears, but you still notice the outline of the main stamp design and the centering of it.
Looking at some of my modern USA self-adhesives I have laying around (for postage purposes), I can see that they have dates, as inscriptions, in the bottom margins. It's very obvious, at least to me, that a well-centered sheetlet does NOT include the inscription as part of the centering. Because the quality control of most older stamps left a bit to be desired, it gives us, the collectors, a whole range on centering options to choose from. Modern stamps, on the other hand, seem to be a bit more consistent.
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Ryan
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Calgary, Alberta, Canada
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What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Dec 23, 2013 1:23:57 GMT
Here's an example that helps to add a fly to the ointment.  This stamp makes for a good argument that a well-centred stamp is judged according to the main part of the design, not the "extras" (in this case the cross on the crown, in Mitchell's case the added engraver / designer credits). Ryan |
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antoniusra
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Actively pursuing every stamp I do not have and continuing to expand my site.
Posts: 416
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Post by antoniusra on Dec 23, 2013 21:35:07 GMT
Nice example! The Maltese cross is definitely part of the design but I would wager that most would not consider it in the centering issue unless it was cut into. I doubt that including the printers inscription in the centering question would win to many arguements. Part of reason of the original post (that no one commented on) was that there are always two different views on any stamp exchanging hands. The sellers and the buyers and it is easy to guess which will be what.
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I was just working on the Spain 1939-47 "Franco" issues, that come both with and without an imprint, and are given separate major numbers by Scott.
