Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jan 27, 2014 3:23:04 GMT
Ok, I am going to rant a little here and then offer some advice on printers.
First off, no matter how good the ratings are, and no matter how cheap the printer, do not buy anything by HP.
Here's why:
HP was the pioneer in "chipping" technology, which makes sure their printers can detect whether the ink cartridges and toner installed in their printer is a genuine HP product. HP also provides "starter ink" (for their inkjets) and "starter toner" (for their lasers). These are not full cartridges, and can ONLY be used when you initially buy the printer. If you put full toner cartridges/ink cartridges into a printer and then try to use your starter ink/toner, the printer will throw an error and not allow you to use it.
HP also requires you mail back your ink/toner with the printer if it's under warranty, which is a real pain if you just bought new ink and was hoping to use it in the new printer.
They do sell refilled ink cartridges and toner for HP printers, but if you use them, the driver won't be able to see the ink/toner level, and it will make you click through 3-4 dialog boxes warning you that the cartridge may not be genuine before it actually lets you print.
The other big user of chipping technology is Epson. Epson's method of chipping, however, has been circumvented. So, you can buy refilled cartridges and they work like new. Epson printers also come with full cartridges, and not "starter" ones. There are also companies that that makes ink "cartridges" that go into the cartridge slots and attach to ink reservoirs you attach to the side of the printer. You simply unscrew the cap on the reservoir and pour ink in. If you print a lot, then modifying the printer allows for cheap printing.
I don't have experience with Brother, Lexmark or Kodak, but my understanding is that they don't do any chipping technology.
Now for the question of inkjet vs laser...
In general inkjet is slightly cheaper per page than color laser, but if you don't print often, your ink nozzles will clog and you'll need to run a cleaning cycle, wasting ink. It is possible for the nozzles to clog so bad, you'll have to toss the printer. Professional level inkjets, have removable nozzles, that you can throw away and replace. Consumer inkjets do not.
Lasers never clog, and output doesn't bleed on porous paper. Lasers do require maintenance. At some point, you'll need to buy a new fuser, which may cost anywhere between half to the full price of the printer. You can also print the maximum resolution on any paper, not just expensive photo paper.
Refills
I buy refilled cartridges and have no problem with them.
I have an Epson Artisan 835 and full set of genuine cartridges is $78 on Amazon. A full set of refills costs me $12. Quite the difference.
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firstfrog2013
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Jan 27, 2014 3:33:18 GMT
I have been using my hp for probably four years.I bought it for forty dollars and the refills I get at Walmarts are the cheapest on the shelf.Maybe I'm just lucky but I got no complaints.When it dies I'll probably get another its all in one print,copy and scan so as bang for the buck I like it.
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Post by stampgeezer on Jan 27, 2014 4:31:19 GMT
I have an HP officejet inkjet 6500, for about 4 years, and it gets used quite a bit. I have always used HP cartridges. I was not aware of the chipping problem. I think I will try some recycled carts to see what I will see. Costco will, I think, refill my used carts, I wonder if that would cause a problem?
Theron.
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 27, 2014 5:53:03 GMT
Great post. These are the nuts and bolts of stamp collecting that are not often broadcast.
I have left inkjet behind, and my enjoyment quotient has risen markedly, I bought (hazy memory) a Brother HL2132 laser for around $40 recently, I thought "what can I lose" at that price.
Positives Fast, spits out a page in seconds. cheap never jams Refills cheap (generic and free shipping) $12 for 2300 pages?
Possible "chipping" re toner alarm (mute) One takes out the cartridge, shake it around a bit, and replace, it does another 200 pages.
Negatives. Noisy when warming up. Black toner only large footprint? about 15 inches square
BIG Negative...No STOP button ! if you accidentally select "print all" for a pdf containing 60 pages, tough luck, pull the plug or waste reams of paper.
Album pages look great, but under scanning at 200dpi the toner looks hazy and faded not crisp and clear like inkjet I am not aware if this is caused by the generic toner, or just how lasers are.
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Zuzu
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Post by Zuzu on Jan 27, 2014 7:11:50 GMT
BIG Negative...No STOP button ! if you accidentally select "print all" for a pdf containing 60 pages, tough luck, pull the plug or waste reams of paper. Rod, I looked up this printer, and I see that it has a "Go" button. Do you know if that is like a "Select" or "Online" button? I wonder if you press that button, would it take the printer offline and stop the print job? Alternatively, you could always pull out the paper tray and/or flip the power switch. I've done both on several occasions.
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Jerry B
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Marietta, Georgia USA
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Post by Jerry B on Jan 27, 2014 8:05:06 GMT
Hi Rod
I and someone else gave instructions to stop a print job. Do you use that method at all?
Jerry B
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 27, 2014 8:32:28 GMT
Jerry, I used your method, but it was well after the original glitch, and it didn't have any effect, I had already removed the paper tray. When it first happens, the operator is struck with panic, the machine spits out pages rapidly, and you have no time to collect your thoughts and try different things.
I shall try it, next time it occurs (which I hope not)
Zuzu, that is a great idea, I have a "Go" button, and I'll hit that as a first response, next time.
If I recall correctly, even if you turn the rotten thing off, and reboot, the print run is still held in memory and removing the print run in the drop down box is not helpful.
The corollary here is, I think, be careful when selecting "Print"
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Andy Pastuszak
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jan 27, 2014 16:43:26 GMT
I would really like to buy a color laser, but I can't justify the cost to myself, especially when refilled Epson cartridges are pretty cheap.
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Philatarium
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Post by Philatarium on Jan 27, 2014 18:23:31 GMT
And just to add to Andy's rant, there are some HP printers that will not permit refilled cartridges. I have one. (Obviously, did not know that when I bought it.)
Also like Andy, I will never buy an HP printer again. And I say that reluctantly -- I was an HP employee back in the past, working at their headquarters in Palo Alto (back when both H & P were alive and around), as well as working with another division that shared the same building as the printer division.
I personally believe it was Carly Fiorina who did more to damage the company than any other senior executive (and there were others who caused a lot of damage). At her direction, the company transformed from being an engineering company to a marketing company. It was an outstanding engineering company.
Never again.
-- Dave
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Post by PostmasterGS on Jan 27, 2014 19:21:47 GMT
I use an HP, but only because it was the best deal I could find on a large format color laser (HP CP5225DN). Given my druthers, I prefer Epson.
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lokos
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Post by lokos on Jan 31, 2014 13:36:39 GMT
Epson printers also come with full cartridges, and not "starter" ones. In general inkjet is slightly cheaper per page than color laser, but if you don't print often, your ink nozzles will clog and you'll need to run a cleaning cycle, wasting ink. It is possible for the nozzles to clog so bad, you'll have to toss the printer. Lasers never clog, and output doesn't bleed on porous paper. Lasers do require maintenance. At some point, you'll need to buy a new fuser, which may cost anywhere between half to the full price of the printer. You can also print the maximum resolution on any paper, not just expensive photo paper. I have had three Epson inkjet printers in years gone by but its been long enough now that I can't remember which models they were. I bought inkjets because at the time laser printers were just way too expensive. It may be diff. now with the newer models coming out but I would have to disagree with you Andy that Epson's don't come with starter cartridges. All three of mine did and with at least one it even said so within the instruction/spec sheets ( not sure if the others said so or not). I remember specifically because after one of my purchases the next time I was in the store I gave the salesman a hard time about it for the fact that the exterior packaging claimed X amount of pages per print cartridge but no where on the outside of the box did it tell you "just not with the ink provided". It was only after you paid for it and got it home that you were informed from the paperwork inside the box that it told you the cartridges were only half full. I was a little ticked at the time. Again, it may not be so now with newer Epson models but with the ones I had it would in fact do a cleaning cycle every time you turned the printer on. Also, during a long print job it would occasionally pause in the middle to do a cleaning cycle. When the jets did become clogged and you started to see lines in your print jobs just doing one cleaning would not always fix the problem, sometimes you had to do multiple cleaning cycles. I can't remember exactly where I read it but one time when I was having problems with the quality of the printing and went looking for answers I came across a statement that said a full one third of the ink from the cartridges goes towards cleaning cycles based on how the printer's software is set up, not do to user activated cleaning cycles, user activated cleanings used more over and above. Not sure if that is a true statement or not but it wouldn't surprise me based on how many pages I got per set of cartridges. All three of my Epson inkjets were tossed do to clogged jets that just couldn't be cleaned/fixed. The last one, I ran out of ink when I went to clean it, so bought a new set of cartridges, couldn't get the cartridges clean so it got thrown out with pretty much $60 some odd dollars worth of ink in it. Oh, something else I remember about them was that if one of the color ink cartridges ran out (mine had three color and one black ink cartridges) it wouldn't allow you to print until you replaced that one empty cartridge regardless of how full the other cartridges were. I think most of the problems I had with mine was because overall I didn't do a lot of printing. It wasn't uncommon for the printer to sit for 2 to 4 weeks unused. The printer I have now is a Samsung B&W Laser. I really, really like it. It doesn't care if I let it sit for six months without using it, haven't had any problems with it at all. The quality of even the standard setting (not the "Best Quality" setting) is still great. I'm on either my second or third toner cartridge now after the original one. Printing is ten times faster (or more) than the inkjets were. It does take up a lot of desktop space, probably twice the size of what the inkjets were. It is a basic model, I think it was $89.00 Cdn. at Staples. Rick
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Andy Pastuszak
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Praying for my family and everyone in Ukraine.
Posts: 1,533
What I collect: United States, Ukraine, Ireland
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Post by Andy Pastuszak on Jan 31, 2014 14:20:24 GMT
I have only owned 2 different Epson inject models. In the 90s, I had a Stylus 740. Worked great, but was insanely noisy. We lived in an apartment, and it was loud enough to disturb my wife's TV viewing. So, I got rid of it and got a HP DesktopJet 932C, which was incredibly quiet. I had that printer FOREVER. I only ever did a nozzle cleaning once in the 10+ years I had it. The trick, I learned, was to never turn the thing off. Prevented the nozzle from clogging. Went from that to a Canon i860. Also loved that printer. Worked great. Cheap refills. It started banding and I could not fix the issue. Tossed it and bought an HP all-in-one. That printer was horrible. The ink was chipped. Came with starter ink. Was big and loud. The nozzles constantly clogged. And 3 days before the warranty ran out, it stopped feeding paper. Under warranty, I had to ship back the printer WITH THE BRAND NEW INK I just bought back to them. When I got the new one in the mail, I put it up I sold it to my sister-in-law and bought an Epson Artisan 835 All-in-one. It came with full ink cartridges. And, even though the ink was "chipped," someone had broken the encryption and I was able to buy cheap ink refills for it. I do have problems with the nozzles clogging. I've actually burned through quite a number of ink cartridges running cleaning cycles. So, I like it WAY BETTER than HP, but not as much as the older inkjets I had.
I also have an old HP LaserJet 4200 DN, which I brought home from work and nursed back to health. It's a Black and White laser printer, and I print anything that doesn't absolutely require color on that printer.
In my opinion, printers are not as good as they were 10 years ago. If this printer dies, I'm going to scout Craigslist for a used printer that takes refillable ink, esure the nozzles don't clog, and go that route.
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