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Post by jamesw on Mar 9, 2014 2:17:34 GMT
Here's a fun one, a mystery of sorts (then I'll stop boring you with these) Picked up these three covers today, all addressed to the same gentleman, Mr Myron B. Field. All have A44 Franklins on them, but each one looks slightly different. The catch is none of the cancels have a year, on one envelope has the year, 1880, written on it. The first, Mr. Field is living in Buffalo NY. The stamp is either a #134 or 145, because there is no shade line in the pearl to the left of the numeral 1. The colour looks to be pale ultramarine. The letter is postmarked Aug 5 somewhere in Indiana, the town name is indecipherable. Back cancelled REC'D Buffalo Aug 5 (no year). The second and third, Mr. Field is now located in Merom Indiana. Both these stamps now have the stroke in the pearl, indicating a later redrawn stamp (Continental Bank Note Co.) Even later printings of the stamp (American Bank Note Co. 1881-82) added shading lines to the upper arabesques (swirly shapes), which these two stamps do NOT have. That places both as either #156 (1873) or 182 (1879). Confused yet? The one with the 1880 date on it is postmarked in Hagerstown Ind. on Dec 18. from Attorney B.F. Mason. The date means this stamp is probably SC#182. The image is crisp, and the colour has a greenish tint, so is probably the grey blue mentioned in Scotts The last cover, with the blue postmark dated May 4 from Merom Ind. is a similar colour, but lighter and the printing isn't as crisp. I'm thinking this one is a #156 (1873). So...if I'm correct, we have three covers to the same person with three different versions of the same stamp.    |
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I.L.S.
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Post by I.L.S. on Mar 9, 2014 12:07:50 GMT
Looks like you nailed it down pretty good. I cant see the secret marks or paper types from the scans. Neat stuff! I love it!
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Post by jamesw on Mar 9, 2014 20:22:32 GMT
Thanks Jeff. Below are closeup scans of the 156 and 182. The secret mark on the 156 is just visible, but definitely there. As mentioned above neither have the later secrets marks on the upper parts of the stamp, so I think I was safely able to eliminate those numbers. 156 on the left, 182 on the right   |
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I.L.S.
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Post by I.L.S. on Mar 10, 2014 0:56:24 GMT
I think those are 156's are they not? That would put them in at around or after 1873 White Wove Paper. another would be the #206 1881-83 re-engraved dies.
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Post by jamesw on Mar 10, 2014 1:32:41 GMT
I think the one on the left, just above is a 156. The other one is slightly different in its coloration and crispness of the image. I'm thinking it's a 182, issued in 1879, because of the closeness to the date written on the envelope, 1880.
As mentioned above, they couldn't be 206 because they lack the additional secret marks on the upper part of the stamp.
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Post by jamesw on Oct 29, 2014 20:44:42 GMT
Ok, I'll always be the first to admit I was wrong. So I'm reviving this thread, because, in trying to put some album pages together, I looked at the three Franklins again, and realized that last March, my head must have been quite a ways up my......well, you know. In looking again, it appears that the stamp I thought was a 134 or 145, on the Buffalo cover, is OBVIOUSLY a#206. I say that because of the redrawn curved ornaments in the upper right corner which I chose to ignore seven months ago. The other two, I thought were 156 and 182, I think now might be both 182, but different shades - ultramarine and blue. Both have the secret mark on the pearl beside the numeral 1, though on the lighter stamp it is faint. I base this decision on the fact that 182 is printed on soft porous paper, and both printings are a little blotchy, not as crisp as you would get on a harder paper. Here is a better scan of all three stamps. So from left to right we have (I think) 182 ultramarine, 182 blue and 206 gray or dull blue.
 Again, none of the postmarks have a year, but the stamp on the left here has the date 1880 written on the cover. I am at your mercy! |
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I.L.S.
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Post by I.L.S. on Oct 31, 2014 0:54:57 GMT
The last one is definitely a Re-engraved #206 {1873} Te first two almost certainly Scott #156 on hard white wove paper as I definitely see the secret mark and the perforations teeth don't appear to have the little "fuzzies" to be soft paper of the #182 variety & the second one, I also believe is a #156 but the cancel has the secret mark portion obscured. I snagged your pic and blew it up in Picasa3 to look so I'm relatively certain on the ID's. I used the "sharpen" feature on a blown up [1:1] image and I'm pretty sure it looks like the secret mark is there but without it "in-hand" and under a jewelers loupe I can't be certain as it could (as you already know)could just be an artifact of the cancellation. Also I don't see any grills on the first two so I'm pretty sure that's what they are. -Jeff Here is why I think they are #156's look at the perforations. They appear to be on hard paper and not soft but you could tell better by comparing them to the Scott #114 which is of course a hard wove paper simply by holding your stamps at an oblique angle towards a light source (image down) looking across the back. you should see the "wove" patterning. Again I only have these images to work with and you have them in hand so you very well could be correct. Very respectfully -Jeff  |
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Post by jamesw on Oct 31, 2014 3:07:20 GMT
Hi Jeff, thanks for your input.
I"m still somewhat confused by this. Yes the two stamps above do have the secret marks (even though the second one is faint). But don't the #182s of 1879 also have that mark?
Also regarding soft vs hard paper, I would think that the printing on the hard paper would be clearer, as the ink would have a better surface to adhere to. The images on these stamps are soft looking, kind of fuzzy (for lack of a better word) and the ink in the more solid areas isn't well distributed (rather blotchy).
True, there are no fibres visible on the perfs. I've looked at these two at an angle with a loupe, though I don't see the wove pattern, the paper does look quite thin.
Unfortunately because they are on the covers, its really impossible to have a good 'feel'.
I don't know. I'll have another look in the light of day, tomorrow.
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I.L.S.
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Post by I.L.S. on Oct 31, 2014 17:47:56 GMT
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Post by jamesw on Oct 31, 2014 19:32:35 GMT
Thanks for the links Jeff. That does tell me that the 182 does have the secret mark as well. So the determining factor is hard or soft paper. Since the USA1847 site tells me that the reengraved 206 is soft paper I have done a touch test and the other two are much smoother, so I will agree with you that those two are 156 on hard paper. I would have though that the printing quality on the hard paper would have been much clearer, but apparently not.
And...I'll stop touching my stamps.
Cheers.
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I.L.S.
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Post by I.L.S. on Nov 1, 2014 6:34:15 GMT
 what? lol Glad you figured it out. they can be frustrating at times.
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I.L.S.
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Post by I.L.S. on Nov 3, 2014 7:21:47 GMT
Thanks for the links Jeff. That does tell me that the 182 does have the secret mark as well. So the determining factor is hard or soft paper. Since the USA1847 site tells me that the re-engraved 206 is soft paper I have done a touch test and the other two are much smoother, so I will agree with you that those two are 156 on hard paper. I would have though that the printing quality on the hard paper would have been much clearer, but apparently not. And...I'll stop touching my stamps. Cheers.  )
This person is obviously upset that her stamp isn't worth a billion bucks so we are tring to show her the errors of her ways I guess you'd put it? Anyhow....
Quoted directly from the USPCS website so you can check for yourself:www.uspcs.org/the-1870-93-is...ote-company/Done by The American Banknote CompanyThe ABNC produced three different versions of the one cent Franklin. The first was printed using the CBNC plates. It is on soft porous paper and also has the secret mark. It was produced in dark ultramarine with blue and gray blue shades noted. Its earliest known use is 25 April 1879 with an estimated 590 million being produced. Black, blue, magenta, purple, red and green cancellations have been found. In 1881, a re-engraved version was issued. It can be distinguished by the deepened the vertical lines in the upper part which gives it a solid appearance. Around 3.4 billion were produced in gray blue, with ultramarine, dull blue and slate blue shades identified. The earliest known use is 5 December 1881 with black, purple, magenta, blue, red, green and orange cancellation noted. A quote from the US specialized catalog on this stamp.
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I.L.S.
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I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
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Post by I.L.S. on Dec 26, 2014 13:24:04 GMT
...I would have though that the printing quality on the hard paper would have been much clearer, but apparently not.... Cheers. Depending on the paper quality from the different suppliers (sometimes) and mostly the moisture content of the paper usually determines the clarity of the print- as do, of course, the state of the die used. (Worn, 1st, 2nd, cracked, etc..etc...) These aren't scrutinized like some others but it still applies none the less. -Jeff |
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zipper
Member 
Posts: 2,566
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on Sept 15, 2015 5:59:24 GMT
U.S. Advertising Cover  |
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rod222
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Perth, Western Australia
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What I collect: US Precancels. Belgium Precancels.
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Post by rod222 on Sept 15, 2015 6:21:49 GMT
For a moment there, I thought you had a rare "Shoo Fly" Postmark.  |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,566
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on Sept 15, 2015 6:48:49 GMT
LOVE your cancel.
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what? lol
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