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Post by jamesw on Nov 23, 2014 4:53:44 GMT
Hello all. I'm not into precancels but have taken to accumulating them as I find them, especially the older ones.
I have a 1898 1/2¢ Queen Vic with a double bar Toronto Ontario precancel which is upside-down. Sadly the stamps is horribly discoloured.
But my question is are inverted precancels more desirable? I'm thinking a hydrogen peroxide bath might help this one a bit, if it's worth my time.
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rod222
Member 
Posts: 11,044 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Nov 23, 2014 9:32:09 GMT
Hello all. I'm not into precancels but have taken to accumulating them as I find them, especially the older ones. I have a 1898 1/2¢ Queen Vic with a double bar Toronto Ontario precancel which is upside-down. Sadly the stamps is horribly discoloured. But my question is are inverted precancels more desirable? I'm thinking a hydrogen peroxide bath might help this one a bit, if it's worth my time. I've not seen any price difference in my experience, but a member of the Precancel club would be the best route. I have seen prices rise in auction lots of precancels, esp collections of 1 town/city. (US) I would seek other methods of repair, other than peroxide. (eek!) |
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I.L.S.
Departed
Rest in Peace
I am in Clearfield, Pa. I love US Classic covers!
Posts: 2,113
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Post by I.L.S. on Nov 23, 2014 12:12:08 GMT
A quick dip in peroxide, then into a warm soapy water bath, a rinse in a dish of warm fresh water and then dried and pressed mostlikely wouldn't hurt it none especially if it isn't a high dollar item that is.
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Ryan
Moderator 
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Nov 23, 2014 21:34:54 GMT
Canadian precancels are much less common than US precancels, and the catalogue values often are representative of that. I'd need to see a scan of your copy to be certain of the precancel type, but there are two listed varieties of the Toronto city overprint on the 1/2 cent Victoria numeral, and both are valued at $30 in the catalogue. Both have inverts listed at the same price. There are some instances where inverts are worth much more (for example, the 5c violet Admiral / Style 7 Toronto precancel on thin paper, $15 for normal and $150 for invert) but there are also examples where the invert is worth much less (for example, the 2c + 1c brown War Tax / Style 5 Toronto precancel, $50 for normal and $15 for invert). In general, inverts on Canadian precancels are often worth almost the same as the normal.
Ryan
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Post by jamesw on Nov 23, 2014 21:55:32 GMT
Sadly, in her condition, I don't think Her Majesty is going to realize any price like that.  As you can see she's horribly discoloured. I'm afraid she's almost beyond redemption.  |
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Ryan
Moderator
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Nov 24, 2014 0:49:54 GMT
As you can see she's horribly discoloured. I'm afraid she's almost beyond redemption. Perhaps the reason for the high catalogue value has less to do with rarity of the stamp itself and more to do with "rarity in good condition"? I'm sure everybody has seen newspapers old enough to have yellowed paper - imagine how yellowed a 115-year-old newspaper is. Now imagine a stamp affixed to paper like that - no wonder the stamp looks awful! And perhaps the high catalogue value just means that almost every one of these stamps will be ugly and yellowed because the newsprint it was affixed to will also be ugly and yellowed. We can be as fussy as we like about acid-free this and archival that, but we can't do anything about the paper that the stamp was affixed to in the first place ... Ryan |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 20, 2019 21:03:09 GMT
Canadian precancels are much less common than US precancels, and the catalogue values often are representative of that. I'd need to see a scan of your copy to be certain of the precancel type, but there are two listed varieties of the Toronto city overprint on the 1/2 cent Victoria numeral, and both are valued at $30 in the catalogue. Both have inverts listed at the same price. There are some instances where inverts are worth much more (for example, the 5c violet Admiral / Style 7 Toronto precancel on thin paper, $15 for normal and $150 for invert) but there are also examples where the invert is worth much less (for example, the 2c + 1c brown War Tax / Style 5 Toronto precancel, $50 for normal and $15 for invert). In general, inverts on Canadian precancels are often worth almost the same as the normal. Thanks to jamesw for starting this thread back in 2014, to Ryan for contributing to it, and to firstfrog2013 for inspiring me to revive it. Back in November, I spent a long weekend in London (I had corresponded with Londonbus1 about it), and I was able to find a few moments to make a quick visit to the Stanley Gibbons stamp shop there. I had been there once before, probably in the 1990s. By now, based on my previous posts and TSF Newsletter articles, you must all realize how much I love visiting the traditional brick-and-mortar stamp shops, so I couldn't pass up the chance. And since I had gotten myself all the way to the Gibbons shop, of course, I had to buy something. But I figured that everything would be overpriced, so I looked at their kiloware packets (also probably overpriced), and I bought one of classic Canada. Well, it turned out to be mainly 1-cent green, 2-cent red, and 3-cent brown Admiral issues, with a few other odds and ends thrown in. Overall, it was a disappointment. Of the few unusual items I found therein, were some Admiral precancels, and on several of those, the precancel is inverted. I was interested to know whether this discovery was anything truly unusual or not, so I searched the Canada sub-board today, and was intrigued to find that there was already a thread on this subject from 2014. So, I decided to add some new stamp images here to share with everyone, and to invite any new comments or observations. For purposes of illustration, I have shown one normal precancel for Quebec || P.Q., and then four inverted ones for Montreal || Quebec (also shifted), Toronto || Ontario, Toronto || Ont. (with serrated lines in between), and Windsor || Ontario. Last, but not least, I have included a stamp imprinted with the number "43" (may even be "443", but unsure) in the center with double lines in a sort of basket-weave pattern that looks a bit like a precancel, but I am not sure what it is. Any and all comments welcome!   |
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Mar 20, 2019 21:14:02 GMT
Chris Beryllium GuyI have the 7th Ed of the Standard CANADA Precancel Catalogue - so I will look into it tomorrow for you Info René |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 21:41:39 GMT
For purposes of illustration, I have shown one normal precancel for Quebec || P.Q., and then four inverted ones for Montreal || Quebec (also shifted), Toronto || Ontario, Toronto || Ont. (with serrated lines in between), and Windsor || Ontario. Last, but not least, I have included a stamp imprinted with the number "43" (may even be "443", but unsure) in the center with double lines in a sort of basket-weave pattern that looks a bit like a precancel, but I am not sure what it is.
Some of the numbered ones can be expensive
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firstfrog2013
Member
Posts: 3,276
What I collect: BNA Liberia St Pierre U.S. Bolivia Turkey
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Post by firstfrog2013 on Mar 20, 2019 22:11:20 GMT
Chris not always true but good general rule of thumb the smaller the post office the more desirable, both normal and inverted.
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Mar 20, 2019 23:04:38 GMT
Chris Beryllium GuyHave checked yours posted.....do not know how many you have - if it is worth it I will mail you the Catalogue in AIX - it is not a big piece - 108 pages - not heavy Let me know by PM with address etc, and I will send it to you - if you do not have many - scan them and I will evaluate each one I can for you !! René |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 20, 2019 23:15:02 GMT
René ( renden), many thanks for your kind offer. As I have no more than 10-12 stamps total, probably not worth the shipping cost to send the catalogue. I will scan and post the rest, and you can let me know if you see anything interesting. Frog ( firstfrog2013) and Nelson (@falshung), many thanks for your comments, too. I didn’t have any delusions about lots of value here, but just wanted to know if others could tell me more about what I found. So, Nelson, are you saying that the last stamp in my post is a precancel then? The more I look at it, the more I think it reads 443 rather than just 43. Anyway, thanks to all for the comments so far. |
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Post by dgdecker on Mar 20, 2019 23:33:55 GMT
A great post.
i have been cleaning up my hordes of Canadian stamps and I found a stash of pre cancels. There are a few inverted ones in there. I remember as a teenager I always was on lookout for anything inverted. Will be keeping my eyes open as I sort through my envelopes.
david
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 23:42:22 GMT
443? I don't have enough info. Seems PO's are 4 digit numbers.
Maybe the catalog lists them?
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Mar 21, 2019 1:24:19 GMT
443? I don't have enough info. Seems PO's are 4 digit numbers.
Maybe the catalog lists them?
Nelson 443 is not in the 7th Ed of the Standard CANADA precancel Catalogue (?) René |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 21, 2019 17:44:05 GMT
Below are the other precancels I have from this lot. Sorry to say, but no small or unusual towns here. Everything is from Montreal, Quebec City, Toronto, or Windsor. So, probably not worth much, but if you feel like looking in your catalogue, René ( renden ), I will be glad to learn anything you can tell me. Thanks to all for your responses ( firstfrog2013 , @falshung , dgdecker ).   |
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Mar 21, 2019 18:47:07 GMT
Valuable or not - those precancels are nice and interesting non the less !  |
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Mar 22, 2019 8:45:37 GMT
443? I don't have enough info. Seems PO's are 4 digit numbers.
Maybe the catalog lists them?
443 is not in the 7th Ed of the Standard CANADA precancel Catalogue (?) Thanks for checking this, René. Based on Nelson's (@falshung) comment about the 4-digit number to indicate a PO, it appears that the leading digit is missing on this one, so that too, is another dead end. Anyway, thanks again for looking. |
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WERT
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Sept 25, 2019 22:54:29 GMT
Jamesw Ihave a lot of them and inverted precancels will never make us rich..haha here is a block example. Robert
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