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Post by jamesw on Jan 7, 2015 3:53:32 GMT
This little stamp says Plebiscit Slesvig. I understand that this is an area in the South of Denmark, once ruled by the Germans. They (the Germans) lost the area including Holstein, in the Treaty of Versaille after WWI, even though Denmark was not involved in the war. The Danish government petitioned the winning powers to hold a plebiscite (there were two) to return the area to Denmark. Tondern (the cancel) is the German version of the Danish town name Tønder.
 So, what is this? A local postal? The lions are the coat of arms of Scheswig/Slesvig. Is this considered Danish or German? I don't know how to read this kind of cancel. But the first plebiscite was held February 10, 1920. Can I assume this stamp was postmarked very close to that date? Your help is appreciated. |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 7, 2015 3:57:13 GMT
This little stamp says Plebiscit Slesvig. I understand that this is an area in the South of Denmark, once ruled by the Germans. They (the Germans) lost the area including Holstein, in the Treaty of Versaille after WWI, even though Denmark was not involved in the war. The Danish government petitioned the winning powers to hold a plebiscite (there were two) to return the area to Denmark. Tondern (the cancel) is the German version of the Danish town name Tønder. So, what is this? A local postal? The lions are the coat of arms of Scheswig/Slesvig. Is this considered Danish or German? I don't know how to read this kind of cancel. But the first plebiscite was held February 10, 1920. Can I assume this stamp was postmarked very close to that date? Your help is appreciated. Nice stamp! Interesting reading here www.stamp-collecting-world.com/plebiscite_schleswig.htmlFollowing Scott : Schleswig is afforded its own Geographic Title in Volume 5. |
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Post by jamesw on Jan 7, 2015 3:58:03 GMT
Answered my own question, sort of. As soon as I posted this, I thought to look in the catalogue under Schelswig, and of course there it is. Called the Plebiscite issue, this is SC#4 issued January 25, 1920. So there you go. Thanks Rod. Some interesting info on this wiki site as well. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schleswig_plebiscites,_1920 |
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rod222
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Post by rod222 on Jan 7, 2015 4:05:40 GMT
James, if you change the title to Schleswig : Stamps, Admin or moderators can place under Europe.
Interesting genealogy of term, "Concilium Plebis" or peoples assembly. Plebeian= commoner.
In Australia still used as a derogatory term for a group of people that are lacking in class. The "Plebs"
often heard around election time.
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Post by jamesw on Jan 7, 2015 4:06:49 GMT
Absolutely!
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cjd
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Post by cjd on Jan 7, 2015 5:06:38 GMT
Your stamp is canceled in January, 1920...perhaps the 26th?
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Post by classicalstamps on Jan 7, 2015 11:26:35 GMT
Schlesvig /Schleswig is a very nice area for a specialised collection. 18 Stamps in total. These 18 were overprinted twice: once with '1 Zone' in black (+ two values in blue) and one with 'CIS' - Official Stamps. The CIS overprints are the only real expensive. Then you can go further by collecting the 18 unperforated and unperforated with 'MAK' (= Specimen) overprint. A 'overcomplete' collection thus consist of 18+18+2+18+18+18= 92 stamps Going even further you can dig into the many plate flaws (several good books available) Full sheets of 100 are also within reach of a normal budget. Schleswig also issued Christmas cinderellas... And then there are the postmarks, where 'Flensburg' is the must common  |
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Jan 19, 2015 4:50:15 GMT
I don't know how to read this kind of cancel. But the first plebiscite was held February 10, 1920. Can I assume this stamp was postmarked very close to that date? Your postmark is notated as follows (similar to many European nations in format) - day, followed by month, followed by year (last two digits only), followed by a time span during which it was cancelled. In this case, they're using a 12 hour clock rather than 24, so there's either an "N" or a "V" appended (yours says "2-3 N"). N = after 12:00 noon, V = before 12:00 noon. Your day is falling off the side of the stamp - I agree with cjd, it looks like it ends with a 6, and the second partial cancellation on the stamp shows that it starts with a 2. According to my Michel Specialized, Schleswig's interallied commission took over power on Jan. 26, 1920, so I guess that's sort of a first day cancellation on your stamp (the stamp was released on the 25th, again according to Michel). It looks postally used rather than philatelic in nature, although you have to beware of virtually anything German-related from that time, it seems that just about everything has been forged at some time or another. Ryan |
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Post by gstamps on Mar 2, 2022 9:47:56 GMT
“The Schleswig plebiscites were two plebiscites organized according to section XII, articles 100 to 115 of the Treaty of Versailles of 28 June 1919, in order to determine the future border between Denmark and Germany through the former Duchy of Schleswig. The process was monitored by a commission with representatives from France, the United Kingdom, Norway and Sweden. The plebiscites were held on 10 February and 14 March 1920, and the result was that the larger northern portion (Zone I) voted to join Denmark, while the smaller southern portion (Zone II) voted to remain part of Germany.” from:Wikipedia  Series of stamps (MI nr 1-14) issued on 25 January 1920 with face value in Pfenning and mark (1 Mark=100 Pf) They have a cancellation "Flensburg" dated 14 March 1920, the day of the plebiscite in the German area.  Series (Mi 15-28) issued on 20-28 May 1920, with face value in ore and Krone (1 Kr =100 ore) and overprinted "1.ZONE" (there are two colours: blue and black-blue).  |
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Post by gstamps on Mar 6, 2022 15:09:33 GMT
An example with the 2 colours of the overprint:blue and black blue. Blue is the most valuable colour (from 7 to 35 times depending on the stamp) On these stamps there are also plate flaws. Michel 24 with plate flaw II , E broken at the bottom.    |
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Jens Madsen
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What I collect: Slesvig Plebiscit stamps and related banknotes and postcards. Coin and banknote on stamps. Formel 1 on stamps.
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Post by Jens Madsen on Jul 12, 2022 18:11:50 GMT
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Post by gstamps on Jul 23, 2022 10:44:43 GMT
On the 10 Kr stamp, Michel/Scott #28, an error appears on the letter E from Schleswig - the middle dash joined with the upper one. Since this feature appears on both of my stamps, I thought it was a plate flaw (it is not mentioned in the Michel catalog)   I found out on the stampsx.com website that it is not a plate flaw because all the stamps in the sheet (5x10) have this characteristic. It would be interesting if someone has a stamp with E without error. Please check. I also found out from stampsx.com what the plate flaws are for this stamp (sorry for the blurry pictures - they are taken from this site) field 20 – tear in the bottom right frame. field 24 – white spot down S from "Plebiscit" field 29 – three white dots to the right of T from "Plebiscit" (mentioned in Michel)    |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 23, 2022 13:47:38 GMT
here's the same areas on the 10 mark stamp. I would thjink that the same die was used with just the denomination changed. I have the 1Kr 1.ZONE overprint and compared to the 1 Mark looks to be the same die 
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Post by gstamps on Jul 23, 2022 17:22:11 GMT
The stamps are made by typography. 10 Mark stamp in January and 10 Kr in May 1920. I don't know very well the technology of making printing plates, but in order to erase "Marke" and replace it with "Kr" (it is not a small retouch), I assume that the entire surface is polished until the Mark disappears. The plates are hardened and to be able to rework them, they must be unhardened. In the Michel catalog for the 10 Marke stamp, different plate flaws are mentioned compared to those of the 10 Kr stamp. I think it's a new printing plate. (E's error was not noticed and it multiplied in all the positions of the printing plate) I received responses from several collectors and all 10 kr stamps have this error.  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 23, 2022 17:51:44 GMT
Somewhere i read that the definitives dies did not have a denomination and it was inserted (I'm guessing like the dates were changed on the obliterators/hand stamps). This would explain (somewhat) why many of the early definitives were fairly consistent. if each die is made specifically for each value, I am even more impressed by the engravers skills!
But you may be correct as the process had come along way since the 1840-50's
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angore
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Post by angore on Jul 31, 2022 10:13:42 GMT
Schleswig 1-14 issued January 25, 1920. Under the Versailles Treaty of 1919, Schleswig was divided into two zones. On February 10, 1920, Zone 1 (North) voted 75% to join Denmark. On March 14th, Zone 2 (South) voted 80% to remain part of Germany  |
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Post by gstamps on Jul 31, 2022 13:41:24 GMT
angore, beautiful series. I can't see it well, but I think the 75 Pf stamp has a plate flaw - B from Plebiscit is open in top right.
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philatelia
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Post by philatelia on Jul 31, 2022 13:55:12 GMT
Nice, bright, fresh color angore . My collection is missing most of the CIS Overprints. |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 31, 2022 14:54:38 GMT
here are my 75 Øre and 75 Pf for the sake of comparison  |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 31, 2022 15:24:44 GMT
Here's some earlier issues are these "local stamps" for the Kreis Herzogthum Lauenburg district in Scheswig-Holstein and then different region(bottom row Herzogth.Holstein)?  |
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Jens Madsen
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What I collect: Slesvig Plebiscit stamps and related banknotes and postcards. Coin and banknote on stamps. Formel 1 on stamps.
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Post by Jens Madsen on Jul 31, 2022 17:15:21 GMT
Nice, bright, fresh color angore . My collection is missing most of the CIS Overprints. How can you be sure that CIS overprint is genuine ? |
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philatelia
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Post by philatelia on Jul 31, 2022 18:05:05 GMT
Good question, Jens Madsen. I certainly don’t have any to compare them to, so I wouldn’t buy any that didn’t come with a certificate or some sort of expertising. |
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 31, 2022 18:18:55 GMT
here are all of my overprints. I received in a lot of German States.... I haven't spent much timeon any of the Greman States.  |
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Jens Madsen
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Post by Jens Madsen on Aug 5, 2022 8:04:27 GMT
Part of the stamps are shown on Notgeld banknotes. This is from Avnbøl(DK) / Auenbüll(GE) :   These are from Vojens(DK) / Woyens(GE) :   |
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Jens Madsen
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What I collect: Slesvig Plebiscit stamps and related banknotes and postcards. Coin and banknote on stamps. Formel 1 on stamps.
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Post by Jens Madsen on Aug 15, 2022 9:25:46 GMT
Here's some earlier issues are these "local stamps" for the Kreis Herzogthum Lauenburg district in Scheswig-Holstein and then different region(bottom row Herzogth.Holstein)? Where can I find a pdf album or AlbumEasy for these stamps ? |
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 15, 2022 10:16:37 GMT
Following the defeat of Denmark in 1864 by the combined forces of Prussia and Austria the Duchy of Sleswig was administered by Prussia, with Holstein/Lauenburg under Austrian control.
Each issued stamps . The three squares in the top row, followed by the final 2 were the Holstein Issues for the Austrian Commissioners. Prussia issued the stamps inscribed SCHLESWIG and by 1865 had taken over both duchies forcing Austria out of the picture .
From The top your MICHEL catalogue numbers are Mi 3, 5,6,7, 4
row 2 8 ,9 , 11
row 3 14,15,16,17
row 4 13 , 20
bottom row 14 , 23 ,25
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Jens Madsen
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Post by Jens Madsen on Oct 2, 2022 11:48:46 GMT
I found this postcard today at a housework exebition.   And this postmarking sheet  |
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 2, 2022 12:02:42 GMT
Nice ones Jens Madsen I sold these two Overprinted ? Cancelled ? MAK. last week  I believe MAK stands for "MAKULERAS" sometimes found on Swedish stamps in the 1920s-1940s era on mail items which were not regularly cancelled . Here I assume it is equivalent to " SPECIMEN" |
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Jens Madsen
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What I collect: Slesvig Plebiscit stamps and related banknotes and postcards. Coin and banknote on stamps. Formel 1 on stamps.
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Post by Jens Madsen on Oct 2, 2022 15:01:28 GMT
Nice ones Jens Madsen I sold these two Overprinted ? Cancelled ? MAK. last week I believe MAK stands for "MAKULERAS" sometimes found on Swedish stamps in the 1920s-1940s era on mail items which were not regularly cancelled . Here I assume it is equivalent to " SPECIMEN" I received the stamps. MAK = Makulation. |
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Jens Madsen
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What I collect: Slesvig Plebiscit stamps and related banknotes and postcards. Coin and banknote on stamps. Formel 1 on stamps.
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Post by Jens Madsen on Oct 18, 2022 13:23:34 GMT
I got this postcard sent to Gera in Germany. 
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