Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jan 24, 2015 13:44:53 GMT
I added the semi-Postal to the title for those that view these differently or use other terminology. Collectors of non-postage stamps most often view these as Cinderellas and articles and magazines reflect this. The items below I managed to find yesterday during a visit to Tel Aviv. I have been looking out for them for a while and managed to bargain with the seller as the items are scarce and not cheap. AVIRON-PATCO AIRMAIL STAMPS. These private airmail labels show a deHavilland Tiger-Moth flying over Palestine, Circa 1934. The plane was the first purchased by Jewish organizations and was used initially for training purposes. Later it was used for support missions to remote villages and to road workers and construction builders. It was supported by the [then] defense force, 'Haganah' and other Jewish institutions. Aviron was the name of the flying school under whose banner it flew. Labels were later overprinted PATCO [Palestine Air Transportation Company]. The plane was in use for 6 years before crashing not far from the Aviron base in the Jordan Valley in 1940. I have not found any information up to now regarding designer or printer, nor do I know how many of each design/value were printed. I do know that these came with a note saying that it is the 25 Mils full set. I rarely have seen them in the past but have seen at least one other value.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,044
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 24, 2015 16:43:04 GMT
With respect Michael, "deHavilland Tiger-Moth flying over Palestine, Circa 1934"
The Tiger Moth was a Bi Plane, this info may need a re-visit? Cheers
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jan 24, 2015 17:27:02 GMT
I've seen the PATCO overprint on this stamp design with a 1-pound value. I have a note that these were 1948, so a bit later than I am usually interested in. Do we know how early they appeared?
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jan 24, 2015 18:07:45 GMT
Yes Rod, I had been curious all day whilst searching and from the info gleaned yesterday from the market. It appears that it is most likely a Short Scion S-16 British-made plane which was used for the first public service 1937-40. Palestine Airways had two such planes and later acquired a few others for their services between Lod [and later Sde Dov,Tel Aviv] to Haifa. They later flew to Beirut, Lebanon their first International route. The service and the company ceased in 1940 because of the war. The Royal Air Force impounded all planes in the region.
So the labels without the overprint are most likely earlier types before the Public service was set up. I have a date for the PATCO types as 1938 hence my 'circa' in the initial post. There are other values but they are hard to find. I found two 25 mils values on eBay today for £17 [$27] each but no others. I did find an old auction listing for 7x25 Mils values and they are most likely the ones I purchased.
I can only assume that Aviron gave the remainders of their labels to Palestine Airways for use in their new service. I also assume that the pilots used by PATCO were trained at Aviron so there is a strong connection, although I cannot find a bond.
Back to work......
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jan 24, 2015 18:35:34 GMT
I didn't spot these in my 1946 Sanabria, though I might have missed them, I suppose. I checked for Palestine, British Mandate, and Israel (yeah, I know), and looked at the end of Great Britain. No luck. It seems like the sort of thing that would've been listed...
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AirmailEd
Member
Inactive
Posts: 174
What I collect: Worldwide airmail stamps through 1940, unused
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Post by AirmailEd on Jan 24, 2015 19:45:51 GMT
I didn't spot these in my 1946 Sanabria, though I might have missed them, I suppose. I checked for Palestine, British Mandate, and Israel (yeah, I know), and looked at the end of Great Britain. No luck. It seems like the sort of thing that would've been listed... They're not in my 1959-60 Sanabria, either. But given the cover posted by Rod, they must have had a legitimate postal purpose. I don't know much about Israeli stamps, as I only collect through 1940. I assume specialty catalogs of Israeli stamps are around. Do they list these stamps?
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jan 25, 2015 14:30:54 GMT
I thought it might be possible to quickly check the postage rates, but it wasn't so easy. I found a table that seems to state the foreign mail rate from 1945-48 was 40mils, and I saw two covers from Haifa to the Americas, 1947 and 1948, with 75mils on one and 85mils on the other. So I have no idea.
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Post by TinMan on Jan 25, 2015 14:52:12 GMT
I spent four years in the U.S.A.F. and I thought the plane was a C-47 flying. I don't know what a "deHavilland Tiger-Moth" is. Also the C-47 was a popular plane during the 1940's -1960's and is/was still used in south America and many of the third world countries.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,044
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 25, 2015 17:00:32 GMT
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,044
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 25, 2015 17:28:58 GMT
PATCO AVIRON
Most respected dealers I have seen with this material call the labels Fakes or Fantasies Maybe created by one Mendel Shapira. Ergo, will not show in any Air Catalogue I would think, unless they include fantasies
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,044
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Jan 25, 2015 17:42:32 GMT
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jan 25, 2015 18:26:32 GMT
I give up on that one.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jan 30, 2015 6:30:32 GMT
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AirmailEd
Member
Inactive
Posts: 174
What I collect: Worldwide airmail stamps through 1940, unused
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Post by AirmailEd on Jan 31, 2015 2:14:59 GMT
I've bought a lot of Canadian semi-officials. Never seen that one. It's not listed in Scott, Unitrade or Sanabria. The seller wants $100 Canadian. Gag! That's a lot to pay for a Roessler production.
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Jan 31, 2015 3:17:56 GMT
That one is new to me, too. I agree, they seem to be asking a lot for a fantasy stamp. Maybe that's what they go for? Dunno.
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AirmailEd
Member
Inactive
Posts: 174
What I collect: Worldwide airmail stamps through 1940, unused
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Post by AirmailEd on Feb 1, 2015 5:39:26 GMT
A block of four of these things is being offered by Eastern Auctions in its Feb. 20-21 auction. The block is of the "scarce" orange tree variety. Eastern estimates a value of $500. It does not show a catalog number. I watch auctions carefully and do not recall ever seeing this label. Now it has turned up twice, including the "scarce" orange tree variety. I don't know what to think. It's Lot 520, at stampauctionnetwork.com/zm/zm84426.cfm
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Post by jaysee on Feb 1, 2015 7:26:33 GMT
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Feb 1, 2015 8:57:20 GMT
C.A. Longworth-Dames should have learned the difference between a sticker , a Label and a stamp before writing that piece. And the Editor of the Unitrade press should have been at his butt to remind him. It was nice to know the story, but to me, the continuous use of the word 'sticker' made that short write-up sound quite silly. Londonbus1
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AirmailEd
Member
Inactive
Posts: 174
What I collect: Worldwide airmail stamps through 1940, unused
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Post by AirmailEd on Feb 1, 2015 16:51:24 GMT
Thanks for pointing out that story, Jaysee. That clarifies the lack of interest on the part of the catalogs.
You'd have to be a pretty serious Cinderella collector to pay $500 for that block. I didn't see any of these labels in eBay's sold listings.
Unfortunately, Eastern doesn't post its prices realized. So we won't know if it sells, or for how much.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Feb 8, 2015 18:25:29 GMT
PORTSMOUTH, SOUTHSEA AND ISLE OF WIGHT AVIATION LTD. [P.S.I.O.W.A.] The company were based on the Isle of Wight, a small island off the south coast of England but moved to the mainland when Portsmouth City airport was opened in July 1932. The airport was one of the last grass runway airports in the UK and closed in 1972. After experimental and short runs on the South coast of England, the company made their first flight between Portsmouth and Ryde [IOW] on Feb 3rd 1934. Unaware that the Post Office had a monopoly on mail delivery to the Isle of Wight, they produced Booklets of labels and charged 3d extra for carrying letters. 20 covers were flown both ways on the inaugural flight but the Post Office forbade any further carrying of mail !! The labels were printed by Charpentier in blue with red serial numbers. They depict a plane flying over Portsmouth town hall. Issued in booklets of 20, 5 panes of 4 stapled twice to a left-sided margin. The first printing had straight edges around the pane. [Imperf x Perf 11½]. Nos 1-4000 The second printing were perforated 11½, Nos 4001-8000. My pair is from the latter printing very near the end of the print run. They do not have gum and the few other copies I have seen did not have gum either. An undated Grosvenor auction sold some covers [2], Proofs and Artist sketchwork at very high prices. Mint or unused labels have a varying price range from pennies to pounds, cents to dollars. A further issue of two labels were produced but not used. They show an aircraft over the Needles Lighthouse on the IOW coast. They exist in Sepia and Blue. Perf 11½. Londonbus1
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AirmailEd
Member
Inactive
Posts: 174
What I collect: Worldwide airmail stamps through 1940, unused
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Post by AirmailEd on Feb 8, 2015 19:41:10 GMT
PORTSMOUTH, SOUTHSEA AND ISLE OF WIGHT AVIATION LTD. [P.S.I.O.W.A.] The company were based on the Isle of Wight, a small island off the south coast of England but moved to the mainland when Portsmouth City airport was opened in July 1932. The airport was one of the last grass runway airports in the UK and closed in 1972. After experimental and short runs on the South coast of England, the company made their first flight between Portsmouth and Ryde [IOW] on Feb 3rd 1934. Unaware that the Post Office had a monopoly on mail delivery to the Isle of Wight, they produced Booklets of labels and charged 3d extra for carrying letters. 20 covers were flown both ways on the inaugural flight but the Post Office forbade any further carrying of mail !! The labels were printed by Charpentier in blue with red serial numbers. They depict a plane flying over Portsmouth town hall. Issued in booklets of 20, 5 panes of 4 stapled twice to a left-sided margin. The first printing had straight edges around the pane. [Imperf x Perf 11½]. Nos 1-4000 The second printing were perforated 11½, Nos 4001-8000. My pair is from the latter printing very near the end of the print run. They do not have gum and the few other copies I have seen did not have gum either. An undated Grosvenor auction sold some covers [2], Proofs and Artist sketchwork at very high prices. Mint or unused labels have a varying price range from pennies to pounds, cents to dollars. A further issue of two labels were produced but not used. They show an aircraft over the Needles Lighthouse on the IOW coast. They exist in Sepia and Blue. Perf 11½. Londonbus1 I have a block of four, for which I paid $40 in 2009. Given your post, I may have paid $35 too much!
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Feb 8, 2015 20:08:08 GMT
I paid 99p for my pair !! [2014]
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AirmailEd
Member
Inactive
Posts: 174
What I collect: Worldwide airmail stamps through 1940, unused
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Post by AirmailEd on Feb 9, 2015 17:02:33 GMT
Gag! And I pride myself on not overpaying.
I had a question for you, too, Londonbus. How does one get to 50 posts? I have six posts in this thread, and they're all No. 49!
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Feb 9, 2015 17:14:57 GMT
...How does one get to 50 posts? I have six posts in this thread, and they're all No. 49! Make 1 more post anywhere on the forum and all of your posts will reflect 50 (the total post count is what you're seeing).
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cjd
Member
Posts: 1,107
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Post by cjd on Feb 9, 2015 18:27:47 GMT
50!
Great labels, 'bus. I'd have gladly paid a handful of dollars for that pair. Maybe two handfuls.
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rod222
Member
Posts: 11,044
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps, Ephemera and Catalogues
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Post by rod222 on Feb 9, 2015 19:44:36 GMT
PORTSMOUTH, SOUTHSEA AND ISLE OF WIGHT AVIATION LTD. [P.S.I.O.W.A.] Londonbus1 Great Post, nice write up. I think it fabulous when stamps are covered like this, the information lives on for all collectors. Why I like jkblues Blog so much.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Feb 17, 2015 21:14:13 GMT
And here they are, just won a few minutes ago. It was tough !! These are also printed by Charpentier. Note that they are also stapled twice in the left hand margin.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 14, 2015 22:15:14 GMT
And here they are, just won a few minutes ago. It was tough !! These are also printed by Charpentier. Note that they are also stapled twice in the left hand margin. These never arrived and I was a bit confused so I asked the seller when exactly he posted them. He told me the date and said they should have arrived the following day !! It was then I realised that he posted them to my secondary address with Paypal !! They were sent to England because Paypal have changed my address and THEY WILL NOT CHANGE IT BACK !! Nor can I edit it. So now I have to make sure that sellers use the address with eBay and not Paypal and I have to remind other sellers of that. Frustrating !
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on Mar 14, 2015 22:41:41 GMT
Can't you change it yourself? I did when I moved. Just went into my account.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 14, 2015 22:51:48 GMT
No, they won't allow me because their rule changes mean I have to have an address within their working domain. So they used my alternative address and did not tell me, I did not know of any changes.
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