Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,908 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 28, 2020 21:56:14 GMT
Marker Monkeys in the Classic Era
British Monarchs: KEVII, KGV, KGVI, QEIIJust in case anyone thought that the phenomenon of the so-called "marker monkeys" was purely a modern innovation, here are some classic examples:  The Hong Kong, Sc 165A 5-dollar green and violet is especially a shame, as it has a decent catalogue value in VF condition, which this is not. 
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WERT
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Apr 29, 2020 1:03:17 GMT
Here are a few..I got more some where. Robert
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rex
Member 
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Apr 29, 2020 8:31:49 GMT
.....it happens... it happens....  Employees should have a philatelic knowledge base.. also..teaching must start from top.. of the varius postal ministries around the world, ... it is not difficult to use a cancellation stamp.. and when someone doesn't want to use it, the time has come to go and clean the street, and I firmly believe that he won't be able to do that correctly either.  |
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Post by nbstamper on Apr 29, 2020 14:21:20 GMT
 The British Post Office and Canada Post teamed up on this one to wreck a nice cover. |
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Mar 21, 2021 14:15:23 GMT
Either a postmark or nothing would have been nice on these $2 stamps (Scott 5296) issued as part of a 3 stamp set ($1, $2 and $5) on June 27, 2018. Instead I got scribble...so sad.  |
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,654
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Mar 21, 2021 14:27:54 GMT
Ouch! tomiseksj Seeing those high values scribbled up sure hurts. Well, that's one hard working United States Postal Service employee trying to protect the revenue stream. Now if the folks CANCELING the mail would only be so diligent. Sigh. |
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 14, 2021 20:16:42 GMT
Two letters that arrived in the mail today... So sad!
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WERT
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Jul 5, 2021 14:18:06 GMT
If i haven't placed this yet....Here is a cancel called "MONKEY MARKER"
Robert
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Jul 17, 2021 8:56:18 GMT
It happens a lot here. I think it’s just pure laziness as they can’t be bothered to get the hand stamp out so just use the dreaded pen. Here’s one that arrived yesterday. I don’t have any of the stamps that were on the envelope which makes it even worse. Graham  |
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 17, 2021 10:49:02 GMT
I am not sure how stampless or uncanceled mail can be posted under Marker Monkeys!  |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 17, 2021 10:51:30 GMT
If i haven't placed this yet....Here is a cancel called "MONKEY MARKER"
Robert
It occurs to me that in this case the pen cancel may be perfectly legitimate! In the early years of stamped postage,many small rural offices and collecting stations for passing mail into the system at a regular post office, may not have been issued with a date stamp or other canceller and the clerk had no option but to do a pen cancel. One of my collections was centred on the 1851 square stamps of Denmark and these were issued a couple of weeks before the Danish post was able to distribute numeral handstamp cancels. Genuine pencancels confirm early usage and are sought after with a premium. There are several other countries where pen cancel in the 19th century are often found on rural Mail. is it possible that WERT ‘s example is one of these |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 17, 2021 11:07:08 GMT
It happens a lot here. I think it’s just pure laziness as they can’t be bothered to get the hand stamp out so just use the dreaded pen. Here’s one that arrived yesterday. I don’t have any of the stamps that were on the envelope which makes it even worse. Graham no Graham it is not down to pure laziness in failing to reach for a handstamp. A lot of mail items flying in vast numbers through the automatic cancelling machines get missed , upside down , back to front, too big, two items going through together , stamps not in the correct place etc , all sorts of events , but just small percentage , a few hundred in every million letters. They eventually arrive paritially sorted to city by automatic reading of the postcode . Only at the delivery office is there final hand sorting for the local postman’s walk. If at this stage the letter is spotted uncancelled the sorter or the postman is instructed to prevent reuse by pen or marker. the hand stamp should show the posting office, the date and the time of mailing. Uncancelled by the time it is at distribution is too late for any such date stamp information to have relevance. It is an instruction from higher up so it is Zealous application of the rule not laziness . The guy has never been given a handstamp! it is laziness when he doesn’t use his pen and the stamps are not cancelled at all🙄 |
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 17, 2021 11:34:59 GMT
There is reason why I specifically mentioned "Modern" mail in my (vanished) thread. The 1864 1st issue stamps of Indian Feudatory State of Saurashtra/Sorath were all canceled in manuscript, either by pen-cancels in parallel lines or squiggles or by inked fingerprint smudges. Here is an example of a cover from our India Study Circle veteran Danforth Walker, with Saurashtra 1864 2½ Dokra/1A of a Kori SG 1 horizontal tête-bêche pair on azure laid paper, which was vigorously canceled by pen and that is not Marker Monkey. |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 17, 2021 13:08:43 GMT
The British Post Office and Canada Post teamed up on this one to wreck a nice cover. Now that pen cancel is sheer laziness and due to an incorrect action by the postal clerk..
Any registered or trackable item handed in over the counter should receive the counter date stamp immediately! It is the first stage in tracking and confirms date and time of arrival in the postal system. The lady in my post office is always particularly careful with her hand stamp . we have a joke as she tries to tie the maximum number of stamps with the minimum strikes of her counter datestamp. I reckon the best she could have done with this cover would be 5 strikes . |
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 17, 2021 14:07:00 GMT
There are, however, existing threads for stampless covers. You should consider doing a little exploring, either by poking around or by using the TSF Google search to see what's already out there before just starting a new thread as the default action. I could not find a single thread on MODERN stampless mail. Where is it?? The original thread title I wrote was "Stampless, Uncanceled/Vandalized Modern Mail with Pen/Marker Cancels from Postal Authorities, Philatelic Societies, Philatelic Auction Houses, Stamp Dealers etc." but that got truncated. The first word in the heading was Stampless. |
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Post by dosamaniac on Jul 17, 2021 14:22:17 GMT
Marker Monkeys in the Classic Era
British Monarchs: KEVII, KGV, KGVI, QEIIJust in case anyone thought that the phenomenon of the so-called "marker monkeys" was purely a modern innovation, here are some classic examples: The Hong Kong, Sc 165A 5-dollar green and violet is especially a shame, as it has a decent catalogue value in VF condition, which this is not. I think the HK 1946 $5 SG 160 was fiscally used. There was hardly any postal use of $5 denomination. Another possibility can be the violet impression being a part of Jusqu'à marking which was generally applied on airmail etiquettes to indicate termination of air transportation of mail. |
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Post by daniel on Jul 17, 2021 14:50:19 GMT
It happens a lot here. I think it’s just pure laziness as they can’t be bothered to get the hand stamp out so just use the dreaded pen. Here’s one that arrived yesterday. I don’t have any of the stamps that were on the envelope which makes it even worse. Graham no Graham it is not down to pure laziness in failing to reach for a handstamp. A lot of mail items flying in vast numbers through the automatic cancelling machines get missed , upside down , back to front, too big, two items going through together , stamps not in the correct place etc , all sorts of events , but just small percentage , a few hundred in every million letters. They eventually arrive paritially sorted to city by automatic reading of the postcode . Only at the delivery office is there final hand sorting for the local postman’s walk. If at this stage the letter is spotted uncancelled the sorter or the postman is instructed to prevent reuse by pen or marker. the hand stamp should show the posting office, the date and the time of mailing. Uncancelled by the time it is at distribution is too late for any such date stamp information to have relevance. It is an instruction from higher up so it is Zealous application of the rule not laziness . The guy has never been given a handstamp! it is laziness when he doesn’t use his pen and the stamps are not cancelled at all🙄 Alex, you're forgetting that in the UK, from July 2015, postal delivery workers were issued with self-inking wavy line handstamps with the intention to end pen cancellations. See this Norvic Philatelics Blog link. Although, it is possible that their use was suspended because of covid. |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jul 17, 2021 14:56:52 GMT
No Daniel I had not forgotten . I have occasionally seen them on mail but not all delivery men (or women) actually got these hand stamps, or they left them in the sorting office, or just conveniently lost them ! I have had the same Postman Alan for 6 years. As he has the van serving several other mail walks, he does our little street with the bundle of mail in one hand and his mobile phone in the other so doesn't have anywhere to carry a handstamp  |
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Admin
Administrator 
Posts: 2,676
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Post by Admin on Jul 17, 2021 15:02:12 GMT
... I could not find a single thread on MODERN stampless mail. Where is it?? The original thread title I wrote was "Stampless, Uncanceled/Vandalized Modern Mail with Pen/Marker Cancels from Postal Authorities, Philatelic Societies, Philatelic Auction Houses, Stamp Dealers etc." but that got truncated. The first word in the heading was Stampless. If the intent is to display covers that traveled through the mail stream without having been cancelled, post them in the General Discussion category in the thread titled Stamps not cancelled--What do you do?
If it is to show covers with meters, post office labels, or free franks, or ones that have been mutilated during processing, some threads already exist in either the regional or general categories. If none of those are appropriate, create a new thread, using a subject that clearly identifies the content. |
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Post by daniel on Jul 17, 2021 15:09:58 GMT
No Daniel I had not forgotten . I have occasionally seen them on mail but not all delivery men (or women) actually got these hand stamps, or they left them in the sorting office, or just conveniently lost them ! I have had the same Postman Alan for 6 years. As he has the van serving several other mail walks, he does our little street with the bundle of mail in one hand and his mobile phone in the other so doesn't have anywhere to carry a handstamp That's what pockets are for  |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Jul 17, 2021 18:23:36 GMT
It happens a lot here. I think it’s just pure laziness as they can’t be bothered to get the hand stamp out so just use the dreaded pen. no Graham it is not down to pure laziness in failing to reach for a handstamp. A lot of mail items flying in vast numbers through the automatic cancelling machines get missed , upside down , back to front, too big, two items going through together , stamps not in the correct place etc , all sorts of events , but just small percentage , a few hundred in every million letters. They eventually arrive paritially sorted to city by automatic reading of the postcode . Only at the delivery office is there final hand sorting for the local postman’s walk. If at this stage the letter is spotted uncancelled the sorter or the postman is instructed to prevent reuse by pen or marker. the hand stamp should show the posting office, the date and the time of mailing. Uncancelled by the time it is at distribution is too late for any such date stamp information to have relevance. It is an instruction from higher up so it is Zealous application of the rule not laziness . The guy has never been given a handstamp! it is laziness when he doesn’t use his pen and the stamps are not cancelled at all🙄 ( vikingeck) Thank you very much for the detailed reply. I retract the lazy comment as I was making an assumption so that’s great that you have clarified it for me. Graham |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Jul 19, 2021 14:22:32 GMT
Well the postie delivered some album pages for me this morning which had a large part sheet of stamps on it plus a couple loose ones. What a shame that this was subjected to the dreaded biro  |
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jul 19, 2021 14:38:44 GMT
Well, I liked your post, but not the topic of your post. What a shame!
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Jul 19, 2021 15:06:37 GMT
Well, I liked your post, but not the topic of your post. What a shame! Ah well it could have been a lot worse. Looks like they did take a bit of care with the pen |
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wakeybluenose
Member
Mostly harmless!
Posts: 311
What I collect: GB to 2000 (but definitives to date) / Ireland to 2000 / General WW classics & definitives / ASFEC / SciFi & Fantasy Literature / Local History
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Post by wakeybluenose on Aug 14, 2021 12:02:46 GMT
In todays Post.... So unnecessary   |
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Aug 23, 2021 22:36:30 GMT
If I didn't know better, I'd think my postal carrier had a problem with America.  |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 24, 2021 8:04:12 GMT
Maybe that is his signature.
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WERT
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Aug 24, 2021 18:16:29 GMT
Here are a couple more... Rober
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WERT
Departed
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Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Aug 25, 2021 1:12:13 GMT
Let me post some thing to make you think about SOME "Marker Monkeys".
A lot of post offices cancel covers like normal, and some get lazy and do the "Marker Monkeys" process. Well the letter below is in BNAPS - Precancel study group.
Precanceled stamps were sold to businesses, etc. to save time and have letter delivered more quickly. Notice some of your { and my } Marker Monkeys stamps are posted as only Marker Monkeys stamps.
This letter to me indicates precanceled { Marker Monkey } stamps. I am saying that for 2 reasons... 1 - notice NO cancel on letter. 2 - If it was Marker Monkey, why is they only { with accuracy } cancel the stamps, but NOT one overlap on this letter.
Makes you think...Right. Robert
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 8, 2022 17:03:16 GMT
In the past couple of days, I received a package from Gene ( djcmh) containing a new copy of the 2023 Stanley Gibbons Catalogue. Thanks for that, Gene. Although it appears that you went to the trouble of getting the stamps hand cancelled (much appreciated), some other postal clerk somewhere else along the way apparently decided that those red cancels were too faint to prevent re-use, and so has christened this nice array of stamps with a Sharpie marker..... sigh. Sadly, these are headed for the bin.  |
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