bluehens
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What I collect: Greece, Cayman Islands, British Africa, US, history, geography, maps and religion.
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Post by bluehens on Jun 4, 2018 11:30:00 GMT
As a collector of Greece the most challenging part is collecting the many Hermes heads. Has anyone found a guide that aids in the various color classifications? A better color guide would help. thanks
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 11:55:40 GMT
Hello, What catalogs/books do you presently use?
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Admin
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Post by Admin on Jun 4, 2018 11:58:39 GMT
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bluehens
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What I collect: Greece, Cayman Islands, British Africa, US, history, geography, maps and religion.
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Post by bluehens on Jun 4, 2018 12:39:23 GMT
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bluehens
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What I collect: Greece, Cayman Islands, British Africa, US, history, geography, maps and religion.
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Post by bluehens on Jun 4, 2018 12:40:17 GMT
Thanks for the blog post
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 13:09:54 GMT
The Hellas catalog seems as good as any for color variations within the limits of what can be done with images that may not be recent. PM me with your email and I might have a solution
jkj's blog will be a big help
There are also specific identification charts published by the Hellas editors
I may have something in my archives -
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2018 15:04:13 GMT
Some links in my archives - some of the sites are only available through WaybackMachine
2 important books that are probably not easy to get Coundouros 2000 "The control numbers and the classification of the stamps of the large Hermes heads" Constantinides 1933 volume 1 "Study on the Greek Stamps"
I also suspect that TSF member Vasia is very knowledgeable in these issues. Of course you also have to contend with a dozen different forgers from crude to very good.
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bluehens
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What I collect: Greece, Cayman Islands, British Africa, US, history, geography, maps and religion.
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Post by bluehens on Jun 5, 2018 11:29:18 GMT
thank you for these valuable links
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blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Jun 7, 2018 22:09:21 GMT
@nl1947 - Thank you for sharing those reference links for Hermes - very useful indeed. I think I found those sites when I did my Hermes the last time - your work was a huge help. Bookmarked now for future reference. Thanks again.
Jon
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zipper
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Post by zipper on Apr 3, 2019 19:44:50 GMT
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zipper
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Post by zipper on Apr 3, 2019 22:34:16 GMT
Anyone know the numbers?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 23:57:25 GMT
Help is on the way Forgeries are numerous and right now I cannot check them Signing off and out
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zipper
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Post by zipper on Apr 4, 2019 0:00:49 GMT
Thank you once again!
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jul 31, 2019 13:28:33 GMT
It looks like I might have to deal with Hermes Heads shortly and it looks like there are some useful weblinks shared here. I have a number of them I will need to identify.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Feb 29, 2020 15:29:53 GMT
I am going to take on a small project and try to correctly identify these Hermes Heads from Greece one by one using three resources. One resource will be my Scott Catalogue, Volume 3, G-I, 2016 and the other will be the Big Blue website as he breaks this issue down in much more detail which I am sure will help quite a bit. The remaining resourse will be you. You are all welcome to participate but I want to go stamp by stamp and explain exactly what stamp features are determining the identity of each stamp. So, if you think you know a catalogue number, year of issue, etc...please explain why you think so and point out in your post, in detail, how you came to that determination. If you have any questions about each stamp, or feel you need me to provide more information about a particular stamp....watermark, hold it up to the light, scan at a higher dpi, etc...let me know and I will do so. So here is the group of stamps I pulled from an old collection purchase at a stamp show back in July 2019 (see above comment). I will start with the top row, left-most stamp which is brown and denominated 1 lepton. Let me first start out by pointing out that I have scanned the front and back of the stamps as one of the identifiers for this series is whether there is a back number printed on the stamp. As you can see, in this case, there are none (except for the penciled catalogue numbers..disregard these as we are still going to look at them in detail with our resources) so we have already eliminated quite a number of stamps for identification purposes.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Feb 29, 2020 15:44:45 GMT
So here is the first stamp to identify. This is the 1 lepton brown stamp that is in the upper row, left. The white numeral tablets identify this as the Hermes series that began in 1886, it is imperf and to me the stamp design is a coarse impression so am identifying it as Scott no. 90, black brown or 90a, brown. The Scott Catalogue shows two impressions for the imperf varieties of that series, the 1886 Belgian Prints, Clear Impression and the 1889 Athens Print, Poor Impression. Thoughts?
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Feb 29, 2020 16:50:40 GMT
Comparing the stamps that zipper showed above, I'd say yours are Athens prints, darkormex . They don't look as nice as zipper's!
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Feb 29, 2020 20:39:23 GMT
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Mar 1, 2020 22:38:25 GMT
I am going to begin this again and have expanded my sorting to all of the Hermes heads that I own. I realized I had a bunch of these previously mounted in my Scott International set that I have been slowly removing stamps from as I move over to Steiner. I have grouped them by denomination and will start with the 1 lepton, Small Hermes Head (numeral tablet) issues and see if I can make that final determination in all cases as to whether we are looking at Belgian prints or Athens prints and then mount them on the pages I printed this afternoon. Here is a look at all of them.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Mar 1, 2020 22:51:31 GMT
Starting again with the 1 lepton, brown, imperforate at top left, I am going to state right now that both of these are Sc. no. 90., black brown. I am also looking at the Big Blue website where he has many good examples of both and it is pretty obvious these are the poor impression Athens prints. I am probably going to mount the one on the right, even though it has a little fold/crease, as the one on the left has a thin that does not appear on my scan.
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darkormex
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Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
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What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Mar 1, 2020 23:12:34 GMT
I only have this single copy of the 2 lepta, imperf, pale bister, but again, I am pretty sure it is the Athens print (poor impression) based on sight. The Scott no. is 91. There is also a 91a that is designated as buff rather than bister. Let me know if anybody thinks otherwise. Another good reason for shying away from the idea that this is the Belgian print is that the used 2 lepta value for this stamp, Sc. no 65, is valued at $225.00 in my 2016 Scott. I have my doubts that this is anything but the Athens impression.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Mar 2, 2020 0:32:18 GMT
I have 3 copies of the 5 lepta green, all of which I would consider to be Athens prints, Sc.no. 92. Scott also lists a double impression, 92a. and a deep green shade, 92b. I don't think any of these 3 fall into these categories so 92 it is. Of the 3 below I consider the one on the left to be in the best condition with overall wide margins. The middle stamp has some remnant gum, not shown and has a rough left edge, and the stamp on the right has a small thin/tear at the top, possibly where someone removed a hinge poorly. Also it is close cut and part of the stamp design is compromised on the left.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Mar 2, 2020 0:52:41 GMT
Scott no. 93, 10 lepta, yellow, has two additional minor varieties, 93a. orange and 93b. dull yellow. I don't think I am going out on a limb here by saying that these are 93a, the orange variety and they are also Athens impressions. We will be coming up on a couple of Belgian prints soon so the difference between the two prints will become obvious but it is really noticeable in Hermes' hair. If you can't distinguish fine detail in the hair, it is pretty much an Athens print. Also broken and/or blotchy borders are a giveaway.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Mar 2, 2020 1:29:32 GMT
Sc. no. 94, 20 lepta, carmine and 94a, rose start the second row on my vario page and this denomination seems to be the most common. Going back a couple of posts if you look at the full display of stamps you can see 4 of the imperf variety as well as 4 of the perforated variety. I am only a little bit hesitant to say that the left-most stamp is our first Belgian print, Scott no. 68, though it is also possible it is just a nicer Athens impression. In the row of stamps below, the left-most stamp being no. 1, stamp no. 2 is also a nicer print but there is too much lack of detail in the beard and hair. Moving to the right, stamps no. 3 and no. 4 are also pretty obviously Athens prints. I also think an argument could be made the stamp no. 1 is rose rather than carmine.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Mar 2, 2020 1:45:37 GMT
The 25 lepta has 4 possible color varieties, dull blue, Sc. no. 95, indigo 95a, ultramarine 95b and bright blue 95c. I think my copy is either ultramarine or bright blue, what do you all think? Distinguishing colors is not my strong suit. Regardless it is an Athens print.
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Mar 2, 2020 2:02:53 GMT
I'd agree with you oj the ultramarine of the 25 lepta. That's a great shade!
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Mar 2, 2020 2:03:42 GMT
The 25 lepta, Sc. no. 96 can only be an Athens print as this denomination in this color was not printed in the earlier 1886 series. Scott also lists a minor variety, 96a, red violet and I am inclined to think these two stamps are the minor variety. The right stamp will go on my pages as it has nice wide margins and no hidden damage as far as I can see.
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darkormex
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What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Mar 2, 2020 2:19:45 GMT
The last two denominations that I have of the imperf small hermes heads are the 50 lepta and the 1 drachma. I am going to take these together as they are both Belgian print fine impressions and it is pretty obvious. The Sc. nos. for these two are 71 and 72 respectively. The have fine detail in the hair and you can see the hair band. The frame lines are thin and solid with no breaks or blotchy areas where the two frame lines run together. The beards show fine detail and the solid field of color behind the heads shows no blotchiness or white colorless spots. There is also something of an aniline color quality to these prints. With these two I am wrapping up the imperforate Small Hermes Heads and will move on to the perforated types sometime this week if I feel like it after work or, perhaps, next weekend. Please don't hesitate to comment or give me your input if you feel I have misidentified any of the above.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Mar 2, 2020 3:18:47 GMT
Hi darkormex
Here is your stamp colour on the left compared to colours you are asking for....
Robet
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darkormex
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What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Mar 2, 2020 3:26:29 GMT
Thank you WERT, it almost looks more dull blue than ultramarine though one could argue it is also none of the noted colors.
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