Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 9, 2018 18:34:18 GMT
OK, Peter ( brightonpete ), here is a link to the thread to which I was referring earlier in response to your post on "Whatcha Been Stamping?": thestampforum.boards.net/thread/5066/important-gradingBut in looking back through that thread, it does not address your question about huge differences in CV for the same stamp MH versus MNH. Al's ( angore ) point about higher CV for a used stamp compared to its mint counterpart is also interesting, but again, does not really address your point. Supposedly, Scott determines the CV based on market prices, so if there is a 10x difference for a stamp or set of stamps, then my thinking is that the market would have pushed the CV in that direction. It has long been my understanding that Germany was the first place where "never hinged" became a thing, so perhaps that has something to do with it, but honestly, I have not done any research into that. I do know that interest in stamps of China and Hong Kong has exploded over the past 20 years or so, and there are some issues where MNH are 3x CV of MH. But 10x is the largest difference I have heard about to date. |
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 9, 2018 19:07:24 GMT
Beryllium Guy and brightonpete Thank you Chris for trying to put things in perspective re: Pete's question. I have never seen a MNH 10X the value of a MH but I do not own all of the world's catalogs, to compare valuations. It would be à propos that we get specific examples (with cat #) from members that have seen this. Some catalogs (for their early stamps) will talk about "mint" and "original gum" and even recommend a NH% factor to be added, and Unitrade Canada is one such example. However, you will never see an enhancement factor of 10X in Unitrade cat !! Nice discussion Chris and Pete and you all ! René ...and I think we should use this thread to continue the discussion or it will be impossible to follow LOL
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 9, 2018 19:36:30 GMT
It is uncommon, but there are indeed several examples from first half of 20th Century, some of which are Germany.
Example would be the famous Germans issue of 1926-1927. Germany Scott #351-362(1926-1927) is $87.35 for unused original gum, and $875 for never hinged in the 2018 catalog.
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 9, 2018 19:40:41 GMT
 Please, nobody report me to Amos.  |
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 9, 2018 19:57:23 GMT
khj this is from Scott ? (Amos is Scott) - Thanks René
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 9, 2018 20:02:11 GMT
Yes, the pic that I someone posted is appears to be from 2018 Scott catalog.  |
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Dec 9, 2018 20:29:44 GMT
I have been using the 2018 Scott Catalog as well. 20's & 30's are crazy for MNH prices!
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 9, 2018 20:31:35 GMT
Yes, the pic that I someone posted is appears to be from 2018 Scott catalog. the items posted are probably from a Scott cat. Mine is a 2009 and shows lower values for said stamp but this does represent 10X value between a H and NH but does demonstrate some idea - thanks for having somebody post that information I also have a 2013 but did not look. |
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 9, 2018 21:19:28 GMT
Yes, the pic that I someone posted is appears to be from 2018 Scott catalog. the items posted are probably from a Scott cat. Mine is a 2009 and shows lower values for said stamp but this does represent 10X value between a H and NH but does demonstrate some idea - thanks for having somebody post that information I also have a 2013 but did not look. Thanks to René and khj for your comments. Well, interestingly, the 2013 Scott catalogue lists the MNH set at $930 rather than $875, so it has actually come down a little. Not sure where this image came from, though....  |
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 9, 2018 21:28:01 GMT
The $930 set price (and all the other values) match my 2014 Scott catalog. However, the layout does not (in 2014, the listing is split among 2 columns). I don't have my 2010-2013 Scott with me right now, so it should be from one of those catalogs. Definitely not 2009 or earlier Scott. k (but not Keijo, he would be username scb) |
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 9, 2018 21:43:54 GMT
The $930 set price (and all the other values) match my 2014 Scott catalog. However, the layout does not (in 2014, the listing is split among 2 columns). I don't have my 2010-2013 Scott with me right now, so it should be from one of those catalogs. Definitely not 2009 or earlier Scott. k (but not Keijo, he would be username scb) Now if you read the info well.....all this $$$$$ is for a NH booklet pane and has nothing to do with a simple stamp valuation being 10X etc The 356 stamp is $2.40 US$ René |
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 9, 2018 21:55:49 GMT
The $930 set price (and all the other values) match my 2014 Scott catalog. However, the layout does not (in 2014, the listing is split among 2 columns). I don't have my 2010-2013 Scott with me right now, so it should be from one of those catalogs. Definitely not 2009 or earlier Scott. k (but not Keijo, he would be username scb) Sorry for my confusion, khj, I did, indeed, get you mixed up with scb. I have fixed the earlier post to remove the incorrect name reference. |
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 9, 2018 22:03:40 GMT
Still think the price discussion is not pertinent to the question asked by Pete brightonpete in earlier posts. Very good correction Chris (I was mixed up !)....rarely am (LOL) so let the discussion continue.........but newcomers will need to read prior posts or..........they will be lost !!  René ........and Pete is in the other thread as well mentioned in the 1st (numero uno) post of this one.....did I get newcomers mixed up  ? Ask Chris....our Beryllium Guy expert ! |
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 9, 2018 22:38:45 GMT
Still think the price discussion is not pertinent to the question asked by Pete brightonpete in earlier posts. Very good correction Chris (I was mixed up !)....rarely am (LOL) so let the discussion continue.........but newcomers will need to read prior posts or..........they will be lost !! René ........and Pete is in the other thread as well mentioned in the 1st (numero uno) post of this one.....did I get newcomers mixed up ? Ask Chris....our Beryllium Guy expert ! René, no worries! I get mixed up myself with all sorts of things on a semi-regular basis. If you look back through my TSF posts, you will see numerous examples of my own misreading of the catalogue or missing some pretty obvious things. It happens to almost everyone at some point, and it has happened to me, plenty of times. And just to be clear, I have never claimed the title of expert about anything. If I am considered by others to be an expert about anything, I can assure you that it would have nothing to do with stamps!  |
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 9, 2018 23:19:30 GMT
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 10, 2018 0:23:43 GMT
The $930 set price (and all the other values) match my 2014 Scott catalog. However, the layout does not (in 2014, the listing is split among 2 columns). I don't have my 2010-2013 Scott with me right now, so it should be from one of those catalogs. Definitely not 2009 or earlier Scott. k (but not Keijo, he would be username scb) Now if you read the info well.....all this $$$$$ is for a NH booklet pane and has nothing to do with a simple stamp valuation being 10X etc The 356 stamp is $2.40 US$ René I'm afraid you have misread the catalog. The never hinged set price in Scott does not include the booklet pane, only the major catalog numbers. If you look at the 2018 listing example, the booklet pane is now at $1800 for never hinged, which is greater than the NH set price of $875. That being said, there are several examples of individual NH stamps at 10x or greater of the hinged price in the Classic Specialized. I had simply picked that set for convenience. Some individual stamps in that set are >10x, some <10x. The #356 you referred to at $2.40 for hinged, is listed at $13.50 for NH in the 2014 Scott Classic Specialized.  (still just) k |
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 10, 2018 0:27:32 GMT
Chris, I will consider it a compliment (and several steps up the ladder) to have been mistaken for Keijo! k |
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 10, 2018 1:49:19 GMT
khj Nice discussion and we do not have to agree 356b 15p or verm Germany "Immanuel Cant" wmk 126 is priced high because it is an imperf and you are right, not a booklet pane but a sole stamp, which is not perf 14 as the 356. I am certain you did find stuff at 10X value NH/H mint. René
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 10, 2018 3:44:59 GMT
Again, for Scott catalogs, the set prices only include the major catalog numbers, not the minor varieties -- unless Scott specifically states otherwise. If you pick those minor Scott catalog number prices, they don't apply to the set prices. So if you add up the hinged prices for the major catalog number prices only (example, 2018 Scott $1.25+$1.25+...+$15+$30 it adds up to $87.35). If you include all the other "small prices" it will easily exceed $87.35. The same applies to the NH set price -- it does not include the minor varieties/listings. It is a valid example of NH 10x the price of H. But you are right, we don't have to agree. If I have the stamps in my collection, I won't care what the catalogs price/group it at! |
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khj
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Post by khj on Dec 10, 2018 3:51:13 GMT
I thought using a set example would make things easier to show 10x example, but I only succeeded in causing confusion. Sorry. So, here is example of a single "normal" stamp that is valued NH ($140) at >10x price of H ($11) -- see Scott Germany #357 below (from 2014 Scott Classic Specialized):  |
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Dec 10, 2018 17:43:21 GMT
There are often national differences in the premiums for never hinged stamps. The Unitrade catalogue for Canadian stamps has varying premiums down the end of the zone where they list both MNH & MH prices, down to only 20% at the end of those listings (or maybe even 10% for a couple of them, I can't remember - they might even be tucked away in the back of the book, like the last of the special delivery stamps or something). As soon as all stamps are expected to be never hinged, those which are hinged are suddenly only worth 50% of the listed price, which is the same as having a listed price for a hinged stamp and a 100% premium for never hinged!
One of the national catalogues from Israel (I think Bale, but I also have Carmel & Moriah) has a modern discount of 80% for hinged stamps. Others are less than the 50% discount used by Unitrade, and many have no mention at all. And then there are Chinese catalogues with additional price listings for CTO stamps which are also expected to be never hinged with full original gum. Yeesh!
Ryan
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renden
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Post by renden on Dec 10, 2018 19:10:20 GMT
I thought using a set example would make things easier to show 10x example, but I only succeeded in causing confusion. Sorry. So, here is example of a single "normal" stamp that is valued NH ($140) at >10x price of H ($11) -- see Scott Germany #357 below (from 2014 Scott Classic Specialized): Perfect example which supports the discussion. Thank you and I do not think we were confused......just mixed up !!  You did a lot of work on this and it is appreciated ! René |
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Post by mdroth on Dec 11, 2018 7:25:21 GMT
For those interested in such things....my 2006 version shows $80 mint & $862.50 mnh
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(still just) k
