khj
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Post by khj on Mar 29, 2019 1:07:51 GMT
and if I almost understand the lettering - 4 row (D) first column (A)? Yes, that is the correct position description. As far as the cancel, it's too blurred for me to say for certain, but maybe a parcel cancel? I'll leave it up to others to give the right answer.
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 4, 2019 0:31:09 GMT
still in the sort pile- not sure how i missed this 1890 Sc#121 with very nice margins!
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 4, 2019 1:14:44 GMT
and I think an even nicer one! (I can't believe I missed these... tired eyes....) not quite as dark as the previous, but much clearer detail in the corners
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 16, 2019 1:34:51 GMT
It wqas a good week at auction- a few and this- July 10-1847 and a flawed specimen, but a new example for me (and now the second, although more torn than closely trimmed as my other) Looking good Miss Vickie!!!!
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
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What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Apr 16, 2019 10:18:40 GMT
Nice stuff. Is that 1 shilling a stationary cut-out or the embossed stamp? I could need some more insight on how to make out the differences.
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Apr 16, 2019 11:08:05 GMT
Hi, Jon ( blaamand)! Good to see you posting as always! I am no expert in this area, but I think that in the two cut-to-shape examples in Stan's ( stainlessb) post, I think that the 6p red violet is postal stationery as evidenced by the three numbers in circles just below the portrait, and I think that the 1s pale green is the stamp version as it has no such numbers in circles. I seem to recall that someone on TSF posted about this a long time ago. I also note in the Scott catalogue that if the 1s pale green, for example, is on a rectangle of paper with four corners, CV for a used stamp is $750.00. If it is cut to shape, CV drops to $15.00. So, huge difference in value there. Anyway, perhaps someone who knows more about early GB will comment.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 16, 2019 14:13:48 GMT
blaamand yes One Shilling is embossed and as @beryllium_Guy noted the 6 pence is postal stationary- I have other stationary items a couple of postcards and a letter (envelope) maild from South Cliff, Scarborrough August 10-1899 arriving in New York 10 days later August 20-1899 ( any ideas as to the post office or area indicated in front of N. Y.?) nothing but fun!
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Apr 16, 2019 15:02:44 GMT
Looks like Canajoharie, Montgomery County to me.
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
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Post by blaamand on Apr 16, 2019 18:12:15 GMT
Thanks Beryllium Guy - that was easy! I had the impression the differences between stamps and cut-outs were less obvious than that, thanks for pointing it out. Until now I've been reluctant to buy the embossed stamps as I've been afraid to get cut-outs that were wrongly identified. Not so anymore
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 16, 2019 21:54:22 GMT
More musings I believe this is 1870 Plate 3 Sc# 32...at least I think I can see a "sideways "3" in each side border above th elower letters. Watermark is 20 and perf is 14 (if those are\n't 3's I'll get really excited!) and then the mystery of identifying Penny reds which I'm attempting to slog through... Scott mentions thinner lines above and below the head... I have no idea what they mean- in SG specialized I cannot find any such mention.... and bluish paper...hmm, the 2 pence paper looks a bit blue.... but I wonder if that's just from the ink bleeding? I see a slight bluish coloration (or maybe I am imagining)... if anyone has a side by side scans I'd greatly appreciate that!) 60 or so Miss Vickies to go through.... I'm starting to look forward toi spending time with Eddie!
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Post by tallanent on Apr 16, 2019 22:37:48 GMT
Details for the 1/- green ... Die No. Put to Press Registered DefacedDestroyed Sheets Printed Earliest Known W.W.1 21 Jun 47 25 Jun 47 May 1862 40,000 18 Sept 1847 1850 16,000 1851 32,000 1852 46,000 15 May 1852 1853 16,000 W.W.2 23 Feb 53 8 Feb 53 48,000 1854 84,771 22 Jun 1855 The final printing of 84,771 sheets was made prior to the end of October 1856. Most reference sources show die WW2 as being put to press in 1854. I believe this to be incorrect as official records show the years and the quantities produced. These also give a total production figure for each of the dies, (WW1 at 150,000 sheets and WW2 at 132,771 sheets). By comparison of these figures it is clear that 48,000 sheets were printed from die 2 in 1853, as shown in the table above, but it is unlikely that any impressions from this printing were released prior to 1854. In order to enable specimens of the new value to be forwarded to the various postmasters, 4,000 stamps were supplied to the General Post Office early in the month of issue. The first consignment for sale to the public consisted of 230 sheets, of twenty stamps each, distributed among six post-offices, on the 8th September; but the General Post Office did not receive a stock until the following day, when 3,000 sheets were delivered. Three working dies were prepared, but only the first two were used for producing the adhesive stamps. No. 1, registered on the 25th June, 1847, was put to press four days previously, and was condemned in May, 1862, as being worn out and unfit for use. Dies 2 and 3 were approved on the 8th February, 1853, but the former alone was put to press, on the 23rd February, for the adhesives: both of these dies were subsequently furnished with dale-plugs, and used for stamping envelopes and telegram forms. The impressions from the three dies, preserved in the official archives, are on a sheet of plain white wove paper, having been struck, as appears by the endorsement, on the 8th February 1853. The above is part of the details on this issue taken from my plate life book .... Hope this helps .....
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 16, 2019 23:05:40 GMT
tallanent I have been reading your updates but I have to say I'm completely in the dark how one determines whether W. W. 1 or W. W. 2 was used on the scan I posted? I suppose unless a specific plate commands a high value, then it's perhaps more academic. But there must be a method to determine which plate was used... i have some penny reds... (early with only lower letters) wherew the letters are centered in some, others higher/lower, or even slightly askew.... but if trying to read through Gibbons Specialized i'm not seeing much in the way of clear cut advice or clues or maybe today I have been scanning and looking at stamps a bit too long
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Post by tallanent on Apr 16, 2019 23:36:22 GMT
With the 1/- green ..... look at the base of the neck and using a glass you should be able to see the letters and number ... WW1 or WW2
Both plates produced almost the same number ... WW2 being slightly less ... but not enough to make a difference ...
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 17, 2019 0:01:35 GMT
Thanks!! I'll rescan at high resolution so i can 'blow up' the image as I'm not seeing anthing by just using my magnifying glass!
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 17, 2019 0:05:08 GMT
and another request for another set of eyes- the plate # on Sc# 58 is in the backroung field to the right of the left 1 and also to the left of the right 1 I'm not convinced I'm seeing a 9, a 6, or maybe even a 10... everyone loves a challenge right
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stainlessb
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qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 17, 2019 0:28:07 GMT
tallanent at 2400/64 bit resolution I still can't see a dang thing!?! LOL The good news I have a 50/50 chance of guessing the correct plate! Thanks for your help. I'm guessing the cancellationis obliterating the plate # (curse of a thousand fleas on the long since gone postal clerk at post office 410....I feel better now....)
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 17, 2019 1:45:16 GMT
I keep saying I'm done for the night Sc# 70 plate 17.....what color do you see? gray brown or pale olive green? I've spent the better part of an hour trying to match my eye to the scanner... or is this a forgery? and now, off to a well deserved glass of red...and away from stamps and scanners til tomorrow
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Post by feebletodix on Apr 17, 2019 7:51:25 GMT
Stan, your halfpenny is plate 10 and your four penny looks greenish rather than brownish.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 17, 2019 13:59:29 GMT
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 17, 2019 21:17:13 GMT
I'm wondering if I should start a new thread just called Queen Victoria... but as this is an ongoing "thing 1856 SIX PENCE Sc# 27 Watermark 24 what you might call a serious flaw... or an attempt to deceive someone somewhere along the way. I received this in a somewhat large lot so I'm more amused than annoyed. Scanning lilacs has been a challenge and I find unless I go to a lighter background, the final jpg file is very gray despitemost every adjustment I try... at first I thought this was a margin that had gotten folded back, but upon closer inspection, someone glued a perforated edge to the stamp to give it 4 margins instead of 3 with a poor job of cutting off the envelope (I assume). Too bad, otherwise an OK stamp.
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 17, 2019 21:51:39 GMT
and some more fun! 1865 Sc# 43a plates 8 and 9 and then small corner letters, corner hair lines, and no plate number (Oct) . SG indicates 1863 versions SG# J53... Scott doesn't make any note regarding large letters /small leter anyone with some additional knowledge, please share!
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 18, 2019 0:05:36 GMT
another find 1872-27 Sc# 59 Plate 12 (!) is brown or buff? I'm leaning more towards Buff
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Post by feebletodix on Apr 18, 2019 7:58:31 GMT
Hi Stan
Regarding your 4d and the sets they belong too
Small white letters on coluored background issued 1862, hair lines added 1864 (SG lists these in the same set) Large white letters on coloured background issued 1865 (SG new set) Large coloured letters on white background issued 1873 (SG new set)
I am more inclined to think the 6d is SG125 6d grey, do check to see if the watermark is inverted. SG list it at the end of the brown shades.
Hope that helps to confuse.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 18, 2019 13:55:03 GMT
When you say "SG new set" do you mean 2019 SG complete? I have SG 2014 and Specialized Queen Victoria, but it is an older version (1970)
I'll check the watermark
Thanks
Stan
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Post by feebletodix on Apr 18, 2019 15:38:48 GMT
The SG concise I keep to hand has them listed as 'sets' for lack of a better description eg the middle set from 1865:- Ooops that looks naf at 150dpi, but I hope you get the idea.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 18, 2019 17:28:48 GMT
Thanks for the clarification!
and watermark is not inverted (dang it) LOL
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renden
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Post by renden on Apr 18, 2019 17:57:12 GMT
Thanks for the clarification! and watermark is not inverted (dang it) LOL Stan stainlessb - great thread and discussion between you and feebletodix, Gavin However, in this type of catalog/impressions discussion, the image of the stamp should follow the discussion and be included (for the reader) Thanks ! René
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Post by tallanent on Apr 18, 2019 19:11:40 GMT
and then small corner letters, corner hair lines, and no plate number (Oct) . SG indicates 1863 versions SG# J53... Scott doesn't make any note regarding large letters /small leter anyone with some additional knowledge, please share! Details regarding this stamp .... From plate 7 - the plate number appeared in the stamp design - thus we have plates 1 to 6 to select from Plates 5 and 6 were never registered or put to press .... thus we have plates 1 to 4 to select from Plates 1 and 2 had no corner letters ... thus we have plates 3 and 4 to select from The issues are as follows .... Plate 3 - Large Garter wmk - registered 29 Nov 1861 - put to press 30 Nov 1861 - 57,500 sheets printed plate 4 - Large Garter wmk - registered 27 Jun 1862 - put to press 7 Sept 1863 - 67,500 sheets printed Although the stamps do not have the plate number incorporated into the design, the plates can be distinguished by a diagonal line across the corner of the corner letter blocks, known as hair-lines. These hairlines are absent from all the plate 3 impressions. I can't see if the hairlines are there on the picture .... I will leave that for you to check Hope that helps .... Allan
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Apr 18, 2019 19:41:26 GMT
However, in this type of catalog/impressions discussion, the image of the stamp should follow the discussion and be included (for the reader) Thanks ! René René photo's are back a few..I'm trying not to get another 'talking too" for making htread slonger than they need to be Hi resolution scan indicates no hairline...not sure what i thought I saw.... so looks like Plate 3
Thanks tallanent
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renden
Member
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Post by renden on Apr 19, 2019 0:11:28 GMT
Stan.... stainlessb .....an important discussion like this needs an image to look at (for the reader) and you are doing just fine and many thanks....interesting and thanks to tallanent also !! A positive feedback for our Admin !
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