Bombadil
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Posts: 465 
What I collect: Worldwide stamps 1840-1960
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Post by Bombadil on May 2, 2019 19:11:54 GMT
I have merged the threads of Bombadil and gazenfeld as both contained material and comments connected to the Military Administration and Mandate periods and it was too difficult to move posts. Should there be enough comments about either topic in the future, further changes can be made. There exists a thread for Palestine Postal History where covers can be shown. Happy posting and thanks for all the comments.
Palestine "Location - Western Asia bordering on the Mediterranean Sea Govt - Former British Mandate Area - 10,429 sq. mi. Capital - JERUSALEM
Formerly a part of Turkey, Palestine was occupied by the Egyptian Expeditionary Forces of the British Army in World War I and was mandated to Great Britain in 1923. Mandate ended May 14, 1948 . . . " Scott
Issues under British Military Occupation. For use in Palestine, Transjordan, Lebanon, Syria and in parts of Cilicia and northeastern Egypt.
1918, Feb 16 - Scott # 3 - Rouletted 20 - Issued solely
1918 - Scott # 4-8 - (out of set #4-14)
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kgvistamps
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Posts: 201
What I collect: British Colonies - King George VI from all countries and King Edward VII & King George V from the West Indies.
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Post by kgvistamps on May 3, 2019 12:51:11 GMT
After the overprints, there was one pictorial set that was issued beginning in 1927. This set continued in use until 1948 when the Palestine Mandate ended with the creation of the state of Israel and the occupation of the remaining territory by Egypt, Syria and Jordan.
The stamps from this set are quite interesting because there are four distinct papers that were used for the printing of these stamps. There are also a number of distinct color shades. If you are interested in this set, see my web pages for the identification of the paper types and the color shades used for these stamps.
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renden
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Posts: 8,711
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on May 3, 2019 14:51:43 GMT
Palestine Scott 19 5m org. perf 14 - Arabic overprint 8 mm long at Jerusalem - Stamp issued 1920, Sept 1 and Issued under British Administration  |
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hrdoktorx
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What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on May 3, 2019 21:36:33 GMT
My own holdings for the Palestine EEF series:  |
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,711
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on May 4, 2019 0:17:27 GMT
Very nice Xavier ! series hrdoktorxRené Member BNAPS + RPSC |
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,266
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on May 24, 2019 12:12:12 GMT
Here are 2 covers from 1940s . Censored to Australia , GB /Australian soldiers on Active Service in Palestine   |
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on Jul 17, 2019 2:11:14 GMT
Don't forget that a wide variety of revenues were issued during British Military Occupation. You can find out extensive details about Palestine revenues at <https://www.revrevd.com/palestine.html> . Links from there will take you to a lot more information on other Near Eastern revenues. I am posting the following document with several types of Palestine revenues affixed to both sides in hopes those interested in Near Eastern revenues will look at that website and tell me what they think.  On front: (1) E.E.F. Two Piastres olive brown stamp overprinted “O.P.D.A. / 2 P.T. ” with “ DISTRICT COURT PROVENICAL / [-] / [-] ” (purple double oval cancel). Ottoman Public Debt Administration (O.P.D.A.) R#O98 (“O.P.D.A.” overprint in san-serif type, while overprinted denomination is a serifed type, lines of overprint 4 mm apart)); and (2) “ H.J.Z. / 5 mil. / E.E.F. ” bluish green stamps x 4 with “ DISTRICT COURT PROVENICAL / [-] / [-] ” (purple double oval hand-stamp). Hejaz Railway (H.J.Z.) R#H41 (H.J.Z. 9½ mm wide, the tails of the figure “5” and the letter “J” are below the stops (dots) on their respective lines).  On back: (3) “ O.P.D.A. / 5 mil. / Devair ” blue stamp with manuscript cancel. Devair Resmi R#D11 (“O.P.D.A.” is 12 mm wide, “mil.” has a full stop) ; and (4) “5 / [-] / PALESTINE / COURT FEES ” blue stamp, and “ & 20 / [-] PALESTINE / COURT FEES ” red stamp (the English inscriptions and numerical values in both stamps are in a font with serifs), with manuscript cancel. Court Fees R# C52 & C54 (Revenue Rev. notes 1923 is earliest recorded usage). If you are interested in seeing more British Military Occupation of Palestinian revenues on documents, reply to this posting or send me a personal message.  If you are interested in seeing more British Military Occupation of Palestinian revenues on documents, reply to this posting or send me a personal message. |
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on Jul 17, 2019 2:54:43 GMT
To kgvistamps : I looked at your website. My eyes may not be as good as they used to be. I was having trouble distinguishing L.1 Black CW#39 from CW#39a. I do not have the CW catalogue. Would you be kind enough to describe the differences between the two? Thank you.
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kgvistamps
Member
Posts: 201
What I collect: British Colonies - King George VI from all countries and King Edward VII & King George V from the West Indies.
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Post by kgvistamps on Jul 17, 2019 13:07:44 GMT
To kgvistamps : I looked at your website. My eyes may not be as good as they used to be. I was having trouble distinguishing L.1 Black CW#39 from CW#39a. I do not have the CW catalogue. Would you be kind enough to describe the differences between the two? Thank you. Sure thing. CW 39 is black (see the image on the left), CW 39a is Bluish-Black (see the image on the right). The black colored image is a deeper shade than the other. I see CW 39a as more of a Greyish-Black. I did find some variation in the shades, so you might find a better bluish printing. You can see my 11 page Palestine collection by using this link: KGVIStamps Palestine Mandate collection pages. I am still looking for a few printings, so feel free to contact me if you have any of them, or a better version of one.
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renden
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Posts: 8,711
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Jul 17, 2019 13:18:08 GMT
kgvistampsVery interesting but your scans are scans and am certain the shades are better appreciated "live" as both appear the same for my eyes, laptop screen etc. Thanks! René
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Jul 17, 2019 14:08:40 GMT
You may need new glasses, renden , or new eyes! I can see a slight difference between the two with a definite blue tinge on the stamp to the right. Maybe get a Mac!  |
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renden
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Posts: 8,711
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Jul 17, 2019 14:16:10 GMT
Thanks' brightonpete Pete - glasses are OK and have been working with PCs since they were on the market - So, no MAC even though I am certain your screen is better than mine but I do shades on "stamps", not scans LOL  |
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kgvistamps
Member
Posts: 201
What I collect: British Colonies - King George VI from all countries and King Edward VII & King George V from the West Indies.
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Post by kgvistamps on Jul 18, 2019 12:30:07 GMT
There is no substitute for looking at stamps in person rather than viewing images on a monitor. However, there is no way my wife is going to let me invite all of you to my home for a viewing - so posting them on a web site is a second best alternative. 
I study the shades of the British Colonies primarily during the reign of King George VI (1937 - 1952).
In addition to the color differences there are variations in the paper thickness, paper color, paper coating, gum color as well as the color of the stamps. So you have to take all of that into account when comparing shades.
I try to accumulate as many copies as possible and put them all face down on black paper under my twin spot lamps for comparison of the paper and gum first and then look at the colors on the front. The color differences just tend to jump out at you, but won't be apparent if you only look at one or two stamps. Ultimately I became a dealer because I purchased so many stamps to sort that it was the only way to justify things and sell off my excess inventory. Currently I have over 38,000 individual stamps for sale on my web site.
After I sort the stamps into groups based on color, paper and gum, I then compare what I find to what is reported for an issue to see if I can identify them.
The King George VI issues tend to be identifiable because there were so many variations that occurred due to the war.
Paper shortages caused some stamps to be created using less paper so they tend not to be as thick as some earlier issues.
Differences in gum were caused by material shortages and substitutions.
Some papers were coated with a chalk-like coating, but not all the stamps issued during this time were given the coating due to supply issues.
Perforation changes were caused by German bombing of the some factories which led to perforation being done using other equipment. Some issues were only issued in London, others only went to the Colony, and some were issued in both places - so you have supply situations. Having literature that describes all of these components is key to identifying the various stamps.
As a result, what appears to be one set of stamps might have as many as 15 printings of some values many with noticeable differences. Many of the printings can be identified if you know what to look for and have enough stamps to compare them to see the differences. The Palestine Mandate set has four basic paper types which can be identified and then there are color shades which exist as well for some of the paper variations. All of this criteria should be used for identification purposes. Most of the stamps from the Palestine Mandate set are relatively inexpensive - especially the used copies, so it is not hard to find some to work with - if you are interested.
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on Jul 18, 2019 15:40:03 GMT
kgvistamps : What confused me is that I did not see the color differences. I was looking for a re-engraving, plate, inking or some other sort of image variation. Below is the block of 8 of the black color variety that drove me crazy. At least with the three high values, the catalogues seem to all say there are no paper variations.   |
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kgvistamps
Member
Posts: 201
What I collect: British Colonies - King George VI from all countries and King Edward VII & King George V from the West Indies.
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Post by kgvistamps on Jul 19, 2019 15:11:31 GMT
One problem I notice with catalogs is that they are never complete. I don't fault them - no one can find all of the printings of many stamps. So the catalogs list the commonly observed stamps and noticeable variations. I have four catalogs that I consulted as I put my Palestine Mandate collection together. Two list the pound value as only black (Stanley Gibbons and Scott), and two list two colors (Bale - Black and Greyish-Black, and Commonwealth - Black and Bluish-Black). I relied primarily on the Bale Catalog for the listings.
These additional shades would typically be the result of a second printing rather than a change to the plate. I have not seen a listing of the printings for the Palestine Mandate, but for other British Colonies of the time, it is not unusual to see as many as 10 or 15 printings of some values.
I typically put a spreadsheet together with all the references I can find as I start a collection. Each catalog and specialists report gets a column or two for their information. Then I consolidate all of the information and put together a list of what I should be able to find and then I go looking for it. If you look at the collection pages I posted you will see the little white slips of paper with details for every stamp I expect to find. These are the result of that process. As you can see, I am still looking for some issues.
Aden is a good example. There are 13 printings reported in the Crown Agents report for the 1 Anna value, but only one or two catalog numbers between them. A total of 6.5 million of these stamps were printed from 1939 until 1952 with some variation in the colors, but nothing really noticeable that would generate more than two listings. You can see my Aden collection on my web site. Use this link to find it and see the stamps I found that seem to match the criteria as well as download the Excel spreadsheet and the Crown Agents reports for these issues if you are interested.
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on Jul 26, 2019 10:10:43 GMT
Here is another example of revenues used during the British Occupation of Palestine. This document is written on only one side.  The stamps are: 1) “ 10 Mils / PALESTINE / COURT FEES / [-] ” red stamp x 2; “ 50 Mils / PALESTINE / COURT FEES / [-] ” blue stamp; and “5 Mils / PALESTINE / COURT FEES / [-] ” green stamp, canceled “ MAGISTRATE'S COURT / GvR / MAJDAL / [-]”, (Majdal in Gaza sub- district), (Court Fees, R# C94 (10 Mils x2) , R# C95 (50 Mils), R# C93 (5 Mils). These are the new currency issue. Catalogue references are to www.revrevd.com/palestine.html(2) “ 500 Mils / PALESTINE / COURT FEES / [-] ” black stamp, canceled “ MAGISTRATE'S COURT / GvR / MAJDAL / [-]”, (Majdal in Gaza sub-district), (Court Fees, R# C99, new currency issue). (3) “ PALESTINE / REVENUE / MILS / [-] / 10 / [-] ” green stamp (issued 1927, similar to Palestine Postage Due issue) with manuscript cancel. (General Revenue, R# R102).    |
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angore
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Posts: 5,348
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Jul 26, 2019 10:24:16 GMT
This would have been a good article for the newsletter but then the newsletter could become more a blog style. The subject is is interesting to me since I took a class in college on the period between the Balfour Declaration to formation of Israel.
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abctoo
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Posts: 150
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Post by abctoo on Aug 28, 2019 18:46:41 GMT
This would have been a good article for the newsletter but then the newsletter could become more a blog style. The subkjct is is interesting to me since I took a class in college on the period between the Balfour Declaration to formation of Israel. I took a Near Eastern history class too. The professor refused to call it "Middle East" history as the classical definitions of the East and the West come from the French as the "Occident" (the West) and the "Orient" (the East). Europe was essentially the Occident and the rest of the lands bordering the Mediterranean Sea were the start of the Orient (except when considering historical empires like those of Greece, Rome and the Byzantium). So if you define an area as the "East," its nearest part to the "West" cannot be called the "Middle East" because you then have no "Near" part of the area you are calling the "East," and you are left only a "Middle East" and "Far East." Of special interest from this course was a book entitled the "House of Olives" (not the popular fiction book of the same title), which detailed the extensive movements of empires through the area about Lebanon over several millennium and the impact of those remaining there after their reigns were supplanted by another conqueror. The roots of such disputes are still being fought out and would have continued regardless of whether there were a Balfour Declaration or not. |
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gazenfeld
**Member** 
Inactive
Collecting Palestine Mandate
Posts: 6
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Post by gazenfeld on Aug 21, 2020 6:52:14 GMT
Good morning
Any collectors of Palestine Mandate here?
Would love to get in contact
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,654
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 21, 2020 7:49:15 GMT
Thanks for starting this new thread, gazenfeld. I am a pre-1930 WW collector, so Palestine Mandate stamps definitely fall into that area. Thanks to an excellent trading partner back in the US who once bought a Palestine collection with lots of duplication, I managed to get a pretty good representation of these stamps for my WW collection. I have a strong interest in this area because I have travelled to Israel several times and have a number of good friends there. I am from the US, but I have been living in Europe since Mar-2018. I am currently in the UK, having moved here in Oct-2019. Unfortunately, almost all of my Palestine stamps are currently back at my home in California. I have a few that I have acquired during my time here, but I think they are pretty common ones that have already been posted in another thread on the Palestine sub-board. That said, I will have a look this weekend and see what I have on hand. I do not have any postal history from the era, just stamps. Palestine Mandate is an area of my collection of strong interest, but not one on which I have spent much time up until now. If there are others who express an interest, perhaps we can organize an online meeting to discuss? Anyway, thanks for your post on this interesting subject. Let's see if others are also interested.  |
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gazenfeld
**Member**
Inactive
Collecting Palestine Mandate
Posts: 6
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Post by gazenfeld on Aug 21, 2020 11:56:40 GMT
Thanks for your reply. Your focus subject of collecting is very interesting and must be very broad.
I started with Palestine some 25 years ago but for a very short period. Two years ago I got back to the subject and became very addicted. I got myself a lot of literature to support my understanding and research. I collect stamps and postal history.
I found it extremely difficult to build up the knowledge especially as I did not not know anyone who also collects and willing to share with me his knowledge.
I started recently a Facebook group called Palestine Mandate Stamps & Study Group. This is a good source for learning about the subject but I found out that there are very few collectors who collect Palestine Mandate.
I was expecting Israelis to be interested ( I am from Israel ) but did not find many of them.
it would be great if we can assemble a group of collectors to share knowledge and analysis
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kgvistamps
Member
Posts: 201
What I collect: British Colonies - King George VI from all countries and King Edward VII & King George V from the West Indies.
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Post by kgvistamps on Aug 21, 2020 14:43:32 GMT
Larry Goldberg got me interested in the pictorial set from Palestine. It was issued beginning in 1927 and continued until the end of the mandate in 1948. During this time there were four different papers used for printing the stamps. They are very distinctive and can be easily identified and sorted. They are listed below:
1. Thin paper - used for the initial 1927 printings.
2. Thick paper with Vertical Ribbing - used for printings beginning in 1928 thru 1932.
3. Thick paper with Horizontal Ribbing - used for 1937 printings.
4. Wove, white paper - used for printings beginning in 1936 until the end of the Mandate.
In addition to the paper types, there are also color shades resulting from multiple printings. These are detailed in "The Stamps of Palestine Mandate" by Michael Bale along with the various print flaws that have been found on the stamps.
If you are interested in the stamps from this issue, please see my web site for an overview of this interesting set.
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Post by clivel on Aug 22, 2020 1:57:54 GMT
I also collect Palestine Mandate, but not in-depth. In addition to the Bale Catalogue I have found "The Stamps and Postal Stationery of Palestine Mandate 1918-1948" by David Dorfman very helpful. My free Palestine Mandate album may be downloaded here, it follows Stanley Gibbons, but as it can be edited, it could form the basis for a specialised album. Clive |
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Post by mdroth on Aug 22, 2020 2:19:12 GMT
Hello Gazenfeld & Welcome!
Definitely an area of interest for me, even if my current collection of the area is extremely basic.
Please post pictures of your collection!!
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 23, 2020 3:03:53 GMT
I also collect Palestine Mandate, but not in-depth. In addition to the Bale Catalogue I have found "The Stamps and Postal Stationery of Palestine Mandate 1918-1948" by David Dorfman very helpful. My free Palestine Mandate album may be downloaded here, it follows Stanley Gibbons, but as it can be edited, it could form the basis for a specialised album. Clive
Clive, it may just be me, but your link wasn't working for me. In case anyone else is having trouble, here is the link is use to surf that page: www.thestampweb.com/albums/free-downloadsAnd here is the link to directly download the pdf: sourceforge.net/projects/albumeasy/files/Albums/PalestineMandate.pdf/download |
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gazenfeld
**Member**
Inactive
Collecting Palestine Mandate
Posts: 6
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Post by gazenfeld on Aug 23, 2020 6:13:52 GMT
Hi all, Thanks for your replies. I started recently a facebook group called Palestine Mandate Stamps & Study Group. You are all welcome to join.
It is difficult to find people who specialize in this subject.
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Post by clivel on Aug 23, 2020 6:20:36 GMT
Hi khj, Thanks for posting the correct URL, I have corrected the link in my post as well.
The local development copy of the website on my computer is .local, whereas, the public website is .com, and I hadn't noticed that I had inadvertently copied the local URL by mistake. It is not the first time that I have made that mistake, I must try and be more careful in the future. For anyone who comes across this thread in the future, best to use the www.thestampweb.com/albums/free-downloads link rather than the direct download to the pdf file given above, as I will probably change the file location in the future. I moved the album files to Sourceforge as a temporary measure as my web hosting costs were becoming prohibitive - I was hoping that the increased number of adverts I have added to the site would cover the hosting costs, but, alas, they have not. Clive
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,604
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Aug 23, 2020 6:48:40 GMT
I also collect Palestine mandate stamps to some extent, but my main interest are the Egyptian stamps with a "Palestine" overprint or a Palestine mention added.
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kgvistamps
Member
Posts: 201
What I collect: British Colonies - King George VI from all countries and King Edward VII & King George V from the West Indies.
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Post by kgvistamps on Aug 23, 2020 13:52:34 GMT
I also collect the stamps from the Gaza Strip - which are the Egyptian stamps overprinted Palestine. I don't collect the entire time period, just the earlier issues to about 1953. There are also Jordan stamps overprinted Palestine that are an interesting collection.
Here is a link to the page where I have page scans of both areas from my collection.
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bernardo
**Member**
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What I collect: Europe , Japan, South Korea, China, Mexico , Morocco , Israel , Trains , Ships, Olympics
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Post by bernardo on Apr 13, 2022 5:02:28 GMT
Hello , very interested in this subject , I just started collecting Palestine stamps Mandate only and early doar ivri , will appreciate any information , I have tried to find the BALE catalog with no luck , I have been in Israel 3 years ago , but I couldn't find it
Any hint will be highly appreciated
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