Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,366
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 28, 2019 21:40:21 GMT
Germany, Post-WWII Allied Zone Berlin Issues, 1948-1949Here is a beautiful and colorful set of issues that I received as part of my Mystery Box from firstfrog2013 in May 2019. While these are clearly outside my normal collecting era, I admit that I like them very much. According to the Scott Catalogue, both forged overprints and cancellations exist on these stamps, so I have no idea if they are genuine in all respects or not. Any comments are welcome!  Germany Occupation Stamps, Overprinted for use in Berlin, Sc 9N21-9N32 Edit: This series of 12 stamps is a short set, as the two high values 1DM and 2DM are missing. So, complete set is 14 stamps in all. Those two stamps have catalogue values in the hundreds of dollars each. For that reason, I wonder if the preponderance of forgeries would be for those two stamps rather than these lower values in the set. At least it appears to me on close examination that the stamps on which the postmarks overlap the overprint, the black ink of the postmark seems to be on top. So, at least I can conclude that the overprints were not added afterward. The postmarks all look like CTO to me. Again, any comments are welcome!
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,023
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 29, 2019 12:34:31 GMT
Hi Chris, cannot help with the overprints but have to agree that where genuine used are scarce and opportunity exists to confuse the potential buyer one is advised to seek out stamps with complete dates rather than corner strikes.
The 15pf brown at least has the correct year slug “7 . 49”
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brightonpete
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Aug 29, 2019 13:17:56 GMT
I look at my used inflationary period stamps & the corner arc of black ink leaves me thinking someone wanted to cash in on a more expensive used. At least there is more to the cancels on your stamps than mine.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,023
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 29, 2019 13:39:21 GMT
I,’m inclined to give the 80pf the benefit of the doubt also. it does look like the date is 49 and the cancel is fuzzy enough to indicate regular rather than “special” treatment
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,366
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 30, 2019 19:46:40 GMT
Germany, Allied Zone Berlin Issue, 1952
There are some really nice stamps from West Berlin during this relatively early period after the end of WWII, and this Beethoven 125th Anniversary of Death Day issue is one of those. Another image of this stamp has already been posted in a topical thread by another member, but I thought it would also be good to show it here. Unlike my initial post in this thread, this stamp, which is considered a complete set of 1, was a part of my father's collection that I inherited. This stamp has a healthy Scott Catalogue value, highest as MNH of course. Sorry to say that although my Dad (Uncle Bill to the rest of you) never hinged his copy, he did allow this one to become stuck to the envelope in which it was stored for many years, due to poor storage conditions. I was able to safely separate it from that envelope in sound condition, but the gum was removed in the area of the adhesion, effectively making it a hinged copy, and reducing the CV by a factor of 4. Ah well, it is still quite a nice-looking stamp in any case.  Germany Occupation Stamp, Issued for use in Berlin, Sc 9N80 P.S. For newer members who are wondering about the Uncle Bill reference, please take a look at this thread: thestampforum.boards.net/post/66333/threadI am planning to do something in December to honor my Dad again, who was himself a stamp collector, and is the one who gave me my start in the hobby.
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mikeclevenger
Member
Posts: 887
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Sept 2, 2019 13:47:33 GMT
Germany, Post-WWII Allied Zone Berlin Issues, 1948-1949Here is a beautiful and colorful set of issues that I received as part of my Mystery Box from firstfrog2013 in May 2019. While these are clearly outside my normal collecting era, I admit that I like them very much. According to the Scott Catalogue, both forged overprints and cancellations exist on these stamps, so I have no idea if they are genuine in all respects or not. Any comments are welcome! These are nice Chris. I don't have a complete set myself, I only have a few of the Red Overprints so far. You never know what you will find in a Frog box. Mike.
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hrdoktorx
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Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 19:59:23 GMT
I myself have a partial set of used copies of the red overprint Berlins, not as complete as the one Beryllium Guy posted, but I do have a complete set of mint ones: 
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,366
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Sept 2, 2019 20:06:26 GMT
Xavier ( hrdoktorx), the mint set is excellent.... thanks for posting it! Lots of CV there, as I recall, so really great stuff. I figured you must have some of these already! By the way, any idea how to tell forged overprints from genuine ones? I would still like to understand that, if someone can fill me in.
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 20:10:09 GMT
The same series, but with a black overprint, and a few more issues: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 20:20:58 GMT
A couple of years later, three of these stamps were re-issued with a green overprint and a price change: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 20:37:08 GMT
This series, with its communist propaganda imagery of proletarian workers, was used in many more forms during the early occupation years. Here it is with a "Soviet Occupation Zone" overprint. Note that for several of these series, the 60pfg value exists in two shades, the common one being the red-brown, and the rare one being the light carmine red: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 20:50:19 GMT
Before the "Soviet Occupation Zone" standardized overprints, there were local overprints (where I'm missing that rare shade of the 60pfg issue): 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 21:02:39 GMT
The series was also in use in the Western Occupation zones, here with an overprint showing a strip of postal horns (with again the two 60pfg color shades): 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 21:14:31 GMT
Another variant of this series used in the Western Occupation Zone has the postal horn overprint in a matrix pattern covering the whole stamps (again having the two 60pfg color shades): 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 2, 2019 21:29:33 GMT
And, back to basics, the original series, with no overprints: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 3, 2019 20:03:07 GMT
To mirror the Soviet-provided series of worker images, the Western powers went with a minimalist "numbers" design, although the colour code for each value is pretty much the same: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 3, 2019 20:13:55 GMT
The numbers series was also issued with the frieze overprint of postal horns, for which I have a pretty good partial set: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 3, 2019 20:23:07 GMT
As far as the horn matrix overprint issues go, however, I only have managed to find two so far: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Sept 3, 2019 20:39:10 GMT
The Western numbers series did get some usage in the Soviet Occupation zone, with the proper overprint, as I can attest from these few examples: 
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 6,010
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Dec 7, 2020 21:59:30 GMT
In my last APS order, I have the Washington printing of the AMG issues for Germany. I can't make heads or tails over how Michel measures perf, and Scott's leaves me scratching my head too. Scott's states that the perfs are 11, 11-½ or compound. Now then, do they mean some stamps are perfed 11 all around, some are 11-½ all around and some are a combination of the two, as in 11-½x11 or 11x11-½? I can maybe shed some light here. The Allied Military (AM) Post issues of Germany from 1945-46 exist in three sets. The first one is the German (or Braunschweig) printing, the second one is the American (or Washington) printing, and the third one is the English (or London) printing. The German printing is nominally 11 perf., but varieties exist (11x11-1/2, 11-1/2x11, and 11-1/2). It is the most extensive in terms of number of denominations:  The American printing is perf. 11, with only some of the smaller format stamps (not all shown in the image below):  It is recognizable from the German printing by looking at the curlicues in the bottom right corner, where the space between the curlicues and the frame is filled in the American (and English) printing, while it is left empty in the German printing. See here from my AFA catalog (in Danish: Tyske=German, trykplader=printing plate):  The English printing is much easier to identify as it is perf. 14x14-1/2 (according to Yvert & Tellier) or 14-1/4x14-3/4 (according to AFA):  Of course, most albums do not make such distinctions, and you end up with pages like the one from my grandfather's Harris album:  where the issues are mixed (also partly my doing). But he was there at the time so I like to think some issues in there are true originals! I was very happy when I finally completed all three sets!
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brightonpete
Departed
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Dec 7, 2020 22:26:18 GMT
In my last APS order, I have the Washington printing of the AMG issues for Germany. I can't make heads or tails over how Michel measures perf, and Scott's leaves me scratching my head too. Scott's states that the perfs are 11, 11-½ or compound. Now then, do they mean some stamps are perfed 11 all around, some are 11-½ all around and some are a combination of the two, as in 11-½x11 or 11x11-½? I can maybe shed some light here. The Allied Military (AM) Post issues of Germany from 1945-46 exist in three sets. The first one is the German (or Braunschweig) printing, the second one is the American (or Washington) printing, and the third one is the English (or London) printing. The German printing is nominally 11 perf., but varieties exist (11x11-1/2, 11-1/2x11, and 11-1/2). It is the most extensive in terms of number of denominations: Thanks, Xavier. Different perf's all around! So with that I think I'll stick to one stamp no matter the perf for my collection! That's how I'm doing my 1800's Luxembourg as well! I'm sure some will "tsk, tsk!" me, but everyone is different in how they want to collect!
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de61
Member
Posts: 258
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Post by de61 on Mar 17, 2021 3:28:33 GMT
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cara
Member
Posts: 198
What I collect: Germany (FRG, GDR, Berlin); occupied Germany 1945-1949, Deutsches Reich 1872-1945, Switzerland, USA (newbie)
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Post by cara on Mar 17, 2021 8:01:50 GMT
Hi de61 , I'am not able to answer your question finally, but I know these stamps and the problems with them very well. I do not know these marks and I do not know the testing regulations of GPSY, but if GPSY marks only with "S" or "Sb" that seems a little bit simple for me. Everybody is able to create such marks. German BPP has regulations how to mark different stamps:  A stamp with the Name of the examiner in written form is a bit more complicate to falsify. (nevertheless there are forgeries too with these marks). Because these stamps could have a higher value if they have the right color, I would send an email to German BPP. Sometimes if the pictures are very good, they will answer free of charge (sometimes no response  ). Here the adress of - in my opinion - the best expert for these overprinted stamps. I met him some years ago on a stamp exhibition in Munich and we gave him a stamp with such an overprint. One short view through his magnifier was enough for the negative judgment Andreas Schlegel Kurfürstendamm 200, 10719 Berlin Tel.: +49-30-8855 0935 E-Mail: info@briefmarken-schlegel.de It is at least worth a try. cara
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de61
Member
Posts: 258
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Post by de61 on Mar 18, 2021 14:58:14 GMT
Thank you cara for your response and advice. I am aware of the BPP expertizing standards but, as you mentioned, not all expertizing services adhere to these standards. The standards used by various agencies have also changed over time, so the marks are dependent on when the stamp was expertized. For example, on the stamps shown, I believe the experts for GPSY signed upside-down at the top of a stamp to signify gum disturbances or partial gum. The good aspect of GPSY expertizing is that its marks are not known to be forged. Nowadays, the Germany Philatelic Society of the US does not officially expertize stamps, but its opinions are recognized as being "as good as" an expert's opinion. For the benefit of English-speaking members of TSF, following is an excerpt from the English version of BPP standards:    I have also found the following site to be tremendously helpful on identifying experts' marks: www.filatelia.fi/experts .
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mikeclevenger
Member
Posts: 887
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Mar 19, 2021 11:14:32 GMT
I have a question for the group regarding the expertizing marks on the band overprint issues. There is a tiny "Sb" at the lower right corner on most of these stamps. I was told long ago that if these stamps had "Sb" or just "b" stamped on the back then the overprint was definitely genuine. Can anyone confirm this? I would appreciate your replies and comments.
Good morning. If any of the stamps were found to be fake, they would be marked "falsch". The "Sb" is most likely the initials that a stamp dealer used to identify the stamps he sells. This way, if someone buys a genuine stamps from him, they can't return a fake one to get their money back. It is his way of guaranteeing his stamps are authentic, without paying for the expertising of them. Of course, his initials are only as good as his reputation with his customers. Have a great day. Mike.
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darkormex
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Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,087
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Mar 23, 2021 2:21:20 GMT
My next project is going to be soaking (possibly), sorting and then mounting Germany-Berlin. The main portion of this I had set aside on a crowded manila stock page in the immediate foreground, there are possibly Berlin semi-postals mixed in with the semi-postals in the stock book above that and possibly more in the mix of Germany on paper in the cookie tin above both of these. I have Steiner pages printed to 1990 and I am sure many spaces will be blank but, I had printed these pages several weeks ago because I was focusing on Germany at the time so I should not leave them neglected. 
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