philatelia
Member 
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,403
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Nov 12, 2019 1:33:29 GMT
This might be helpful to newer collectors to know. The value in a catalog is a guideline, a way to give you a ballpark value for a given stamp. But quite often catalog value and market value are very very different. This is important to understand when buying, selling or trading philatelic material.
Here is an example.
Item #1 - MNH set of definitives from a British Commonwealth country that the catalog sets at $50
Item #2 - 50 modern used definitives from another British Commonwealth country that the catalog prices at $50 total for the 50 combined ie - $1 each
Are those two items equal? Would you pay the same amount for both?
In today's market, you could probably easily find that mint set for a bit above face value depending on the country, but generally you should be able to buy it for a large discount from the catalog price. The mint set does retain value in the fact that it is still valid for franking.
The common used definitives, while given values in the catalog, have a very low market value. You could probably pay pennies for those or find them by the hundreds in a bag of kiloware.
So when buying or trading try to think in terms of market value and use catalog value as a tool for inventorying and as a baseline. Do not be surprised if the two vary dramatically!
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,258
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 12, 2019 10:35:58 GMT
It is a regrettable fact that all too often folk's selling expectations get dashed when Catalogue value and market value collide!
I have had experience recently of being asked to assess a collection hoard for an Auction house.A room full of two hundred stockbooks and albums which the owner proudly declared he reckoned the Catalogue value was "in excess of £50,000 but being realistic he would accept £10,000".
Two hours later I had seen little to excite me, most had been gathered in trade exchanges with world wide partners, and suggested a realistic Auction value might be around £3000, this was argued and debated but he stuck at his £10,000 figure . As we shook hands on parting, no deal done, he revealed that a valuer for Stanley Gibbons had been a few months back and had suggested £2000, so I felt vindicated.
Incidentally in 70 years as a stamp collector, apart from Postal history covers which individually are unique and not always catalogued, I think I can state I have never paid full Catalogue value for any stamp in my collection. My buying bench mark is up to 50% and my selling expectation range is generally 10% to 33% depending on rarity and condition. Stamps individually catalogued at 50p /$1 are generally give-aways or bulk-lotted.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,403
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Nov 12, 2019 14:18:05 GMT
EXACTLY! Those catalog values give so many people unrealistic expectations of the value of their stamps. It isn’t really their fault, not everyone has the time or inclination to study the philatelic market. That said, when in doubt we now have EBay as another quick source. I suggest that folks look at the selling prices of similar material. That can be a real eye opener.
Scott in particular gives common used stamps inflated values, while some, like recent USA se-tenants are woefully underpriced. For example, I donated 10,000 48c Ireland self adhesive flower stamps to the holocaust project. Scott’s values them at $1.50 EACH! Did I make a $15,000 donation? Um, I don’t think so!
I like the “M” rating for minimum value that Facit uses for common stamps - very practical.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,258
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 12, 2019 14:48:42 GMT
My favourite example of Catalogue Value versus market is when asked the question " Do you have a Penny Black ? How much is it worth?" Current CV £375 (assumes 4 margins and no fancy extras like Coloured Maltese cross or scarce plate 11) Here are 4 examples , two from a major UK dealer and 2 on ebay  Fine examples are around at 40% catalogue, good at £20% , even a train wreck like the 4th one has a value at 5% (which in this case is £15 more than it is really worth in my opinion!) |
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,816
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Nov 12, 2019 15:32:32 GMT
Whilst we are on the topic of catalogue pricing, collectors need to be aware that the Flag Over Porch PNCs are incorrect for the current editions of the Scott Catalogue.
"Be aware that pricing in the 2019 (and 2020) Scott Catalogue for Scott 2915A has some major errors. Sellers on eBay are taking advantage of this pricing error to charge inflated prices for common PNC strips".
The full story and additional details can be found on the Plate Number Coil Collectors Club website - www.pnc3.org/ |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,327 
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 12, 2019 16:35:47 GMT
Catalog pricing causes a lot of angst in the hobby. It usually disappoints people. Often, minimum values cannot be found, mint stamps still on sale at post office are valued as 2x face catalog value, very common stamps valued at $1 or more (philatelia's example) etc. But it is often misused by dealers. For example, dealer will sell a collection in F-VF in condition cataloging for $500. There is no catalog value for F-VF!
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casso
**Member** 
Inactive
Posts: 26
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Post by casso on Nov 13, 2019 3:25:04 GMT
“ The value in a catalog is a guideline, a way to give you a ballpark value for a given stamp”
A totally false statement. What ever catalog one has in their hot little hand, or looking at the item online from a Dealers Catalog, the value indicated IS THE BUY PRICE, from the seller.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,403
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Nov 13, 2019 4:15:09 GMT
Are you talking about auction catalogs or reference catalogs? Because your statement doesn’t apply to both.
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mikeclevenger
Member
Posts: 887
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Nov 13, 2019 10:14:33 GMT
Why can't they just list the actual selling values for the past year? I hate price guides for what to sell stamps for. People look at them and just think they have a gold mine.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,327
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 13, 2019 12:53:05 GMT
When you get into a discussion on catalog value setting, the catalog value usually ends up being a price what a "traditional full service dealer" would charge. For example, you can find many items selling on ebay regularly well below catalog but that is not the traditional channel. Now, I do not even see how they can get data on so many stamps unless some dealer tells them. The fact that some pricing is puzzling shows not a simple market snapshot. They do not even revisit pricing every year for many countries. I would assert that the cat value often sets market prices for many stamps as a baseline rather than the other way around. In older times, you could rely on actual dealer price lists (more than 1 dealer) to understand values for some areas. Of course, people need to understand the buy/sell game so if a stamp is valued at x they will not pay x for it. They need to buy it for less to make a profit.
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Post by dermmd on Dec 10, 2019 22:51:28 GMT
I think one of the most misleading of catalog values is for most mint US commemoratives going back to the 3 cent ones. Scott typically lists the value as double face but for most of them, you are lucky to get 50% of face value if you sell them to a dealer, who will turn around and sell them for 80% or less of face value.
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,636
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 10, 2019 22:57:12 GMT
i just use them to mail letters!
i doubt if I will ever need to buy stamps for postage again in this lifetime....
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Post by dermmd on Dec 10, 2019 23:39:13 GMT
i just use them to mail letters!
i doubt if I will ever need to buy stamps for postage again in this lifetime....
That was my theory before the internet - that I could always use them for postage. Now I hardly ever mail a letter. Apparently neither does anyone else as I hardly ever get anything in the mail with a stamp, and almost never with a commemorative. |
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stainlessb
Member
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,636
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Dec 10, 2019 23:51:33 GMT
Most of my stamps get used to mail stamps to other collectors (whether in trade/gift/or sales). At the moment I'm still using up self-adhesive ones
so you just need to start sending stamps to others!!  |
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,698
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 11, 2019 0:02:02 GMT
Most of my stamps get used to mail stamps to other collectors (whether in trade/gift/or sales). At the moment I'm still using up self-adhesive ones
so you just need to start sending stamps to others!! I share your thoughts Stan René |
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mikeclevenger
Member
Posts: 887
What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on Dec 13, 2019 17:06:19 GMT
It is fun to cover the front of an envelope with 3 & 4 cent stamps. Sometimes, they almost don't fit. LOL.
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Post by rjan55 on Dec 13, 2019 23:01:35 GMT
My family knows immediately when grandpa/dad is sending something through the mails. It comes covered with stamps of all ilks and ages. I also like to think I am promoting math skills among our postal employees.
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renden
Member
Posts: 8,698
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 13, 2019 23:25:09 GMT
My family knows immediately when grandpa/dad is sending something through the mails. It comes covered with stamps of all ilks and ages. I also like to think I am promoting math skills among our postal employees. you are just 7 posts away for "50" and full membership and I encourage you - the big giveaways are coming soooooon ! René 1 giveaway Dec 22 "My X-Mas giveaway" others - read the threads....... |
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oregon1234
**Member**
Just sorting away over here...
Posts: 32
What I collect: Trying to focus just on Hong Kong. Wish me luck.
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Post by oregon1234 on Dec 14, 2019 5:54:22 GMT
My family knows immediately when grandpa/dad is sending something through the mails. It comes covered with stamps of all ilks and ages. I also like to think I am promoting math skills among our postal employees. I do the same thing with Postcrossing and postcards; since most US stamps aren't worth collecting it's better to send them around the world. People from other countries really appreciate them. |
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bobstew617
Member
Posts: 376
What I collect: Switzerland, Ireland, Scandinavia, Channel Islands, Hong Kong (British Admin), PNG, others...
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Post by bobstew617 on May 10, 2020 13:59:12 GMT
it is very sad for me to tell people I know when they ask me how much are sheets of 3c US stamps that grandma or grandpa saved in their safe deposit box for years--postage at best!
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,403
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on May 10, 2020 14:32:02 GMT
bobstew617, You are so right. One of our local stamp club members owns a brick and mortar stamp store and he has to deal with this quite often. People sometimes leave in tears. I think the whole "buy a sheet of every new issue" became popular because of the publicity surrounding Roosevelt and his collection. At least that seems to be when the glut of sheets starts to appear. I rarely hear of folks walking in with a stack of two cent red commemoratives - they are usually post war 3c issues.
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