darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Dec 8, 2019 22:31:14 GMT
If you browse the Scott Catalog and listings for the King Ferdinand Definitives of 1920 to 1922 you would think there are few variations for these stamps. There is a note that states at the bottom of the listings for Scott nos. 248 to 260 that mentions different paper types and that some of these stamps are imperforate but beyond that...crickets. That is far from the truth. Just like the preceding issues, there are a large number of perf varieties. The romaniastamps.com website lists 5 different perforations, a variety of essays, errors, color variations, paper types, plate flaws, etc... Even a couple of years ago, I had separated the stamps by paper type and separated them on my stock pages until I could explore what was going on with this issue. It turns out that this obvious paper difference is described as war paper, which reminds me of the WWI Germania war printings from Germany. This is a gray paper that is readily identifiable as you start sorting through these stamps. Below are the war paper varieties that I have. I am missing only the 5 bani. Also, when you look at these stamps side by side you can already start to see the differences in perforations, everything from 11.5 to 14.5. I am going to go through this whole issue one denomination at a time and look at the differences I can identify in my own collection and point out any interesting discoveries. I am hoping some more errors or at least plate flaws will show up. Here are the white paper varieties for comparison. It is pretty obvious.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Dec 9, 2019 1:32:51 GMT
The 1 bani denomination, grey (war) paper variety has up to 6 different perforation types including 13.5, 11.5, 11.5x13.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. Of these, I found 3 different perf types, the 13.5, 11.5 and the 13.5x11.5 which are below: 13.5x11.5 11.5 There also seems to be a plate flaw at the lower right frame below: 13.5 A third paper type is also noted for this issue that contains blue threads which Romania Stamps notes for the 5 bani, 10 bani, 15 bani and 25 bani denominations but not for the 1 bani. Of the 4 war paper stamps that I have, one was on paper that was slightly thinner and also had a bit of a curl. It turns out to be of the paper type that contains blue threads, but not listed on the website for this denomination. According to the Romania Stamps page, the white paper variety has only 3 different perforation types, the 11.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. Oddly, I have 3 copies of the white paper variety with 13.5 which is not one of the perf types noted on the website for this paper type. Of the three noted perforation types, I have the one measuring 13.5x11.5. Below is the unlisted perf type: 13.5 Below is one of the listed perf types: 13.5x11.5
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Post by rjan55 on Dec 9, 2019 1:37:33 GMT
I really get into these definitive issue variances myself. I will set out series of perforation and page variances, as well as obvious color shades. I have several pages of the Romanian in question.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Dec 9, 2019 1:40:39 GMT
I would love to see them. I am amazed at how complicated these issues are.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Dec 15, 2019 20:30:56 GMT
The 5 bani, Sc.249, also has a grey (war) paper version and a paper version with blue threads which I don't have. Also the same perf variations apply as the 1 bani. I seem to have only the perf 13.5 and the 11.5. One thing I have also noticed is that there seems to be a lot of variation in the quality of the perforations or, perhaps, the perforating machines. Many have rough perfs that are easy to mistake for roulette perfs. Some of these I am simply unable to obtain an accurate perforation measurement from because there are either no perfs or not enough to show me definitively what gauge the stamp is. Below are the ones I can say for sure are 13.5. The sole 11.5 perf is this one. The one I could not measure properly is probably 13.5 because I have noticed a trend that when the stamp is rough perfed, when I can measure it, they tend to all be 13.5. You can see this in one of the stamps above that does measure 13.5. The above stamp, to me, is also interesting because of the "mandate" postmark. This leads me to believe it was used in an area such as Bessarabia, Bukovina, Transylvania, Banat, Crișana and Maramureș which eventually became part of Romania around this time with the end of WWI and the collapse of Imperial Russia.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Dec 30, 2019 3:15:37 GMT
Now let's look at the 10 bani denomination, Scott 250, and the varieties I have in my collection. Like the 1 bani and 5 bani, romaniastamps.com notes some of the same perf variations and war paper types for the 10 bani, however, the gray (war) paper variety is limited to only to 11.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. All Perf 13.5 are below. Note the "mandate" postmark on the second stamp from the left. Unfortunately there is no information on the romania stamps page regarding cancellations so I don't currently have more to share. Perf 11.5 varieties including a war paper stamp (middle) and blue lint (thread) paper variety on the right. Of the 10 bani stamps I have, this blue lint paper variety is the most interesting and I wonder if I have something not mentioned on the romaniastamps.com page. There appears to be an additional light overprint, separate from the postmark. There are enough letters of the upside down and slightly diagonal postmark to make out that it was cancelled in Bucharest on what might have been February 21, 19?6. Below the date is a faint overprint reading 1914 on one line and immediately below it the number 10. Again, nothing on romaniastamps.com and I find no mention in Scott but I wonder if this is a local or provisional overprint. Does anyone have more information or know where I can find it? Blue lint (thread) close up.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 5, 2020 0:55:39 GMT
The 15 bani red brown is more limited in terms of perforation varieties both for the white paper variety and the gray (war) paper variety. This is reflected also in the number of varieties I have in my stock. I have only the white paper variety with 11.5 perforations and the same for the gray (war paper). I have no other perforation varieties even though the white paper exists as both 11.5 and 13.5x11.5 and the gray paper exists as 11.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. There is also a blue lint (thread) paper variety with 11.5 perfs. My white paper appears to be scuffed on the face, however, this will be the one that goes onto my album pages. I am leaving the gray paper stamps for my separately created pages for varieties unless it is the only stamp I have.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 12, 2020 22:45:46 GMT
I have a limited number of 25 bani, deep blue, King Ferdinand stamps (Sc. no. 252) from the 1920 definitive series. Also, romaniastamps.com, notes that the number of perf variations is less than for other stamps in the group. The gray (war) paper variety below is only noted as 13.5x14.5 and the normal paper variety exists as 13.5, 11.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. The copy below is 13.5 all around. I noted that of the two war paper stamps I have below, my perf gauge made them out to be closer to 13.5x14 though one could argue that it is actually somewhere in between, like 14.25. 13.5x14.5 (gray paper) 13.5 (white paper)
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 13, 2020 0:07:08 GMT
Up until now, all the issues of the King Ferdinand definitive issue I have posted had been printed and issued in January of 1920. Three denominations, however, were issued in May of 1921, the first of which was another 25 bani brown or pale brown. This stamp, as well as the other denominations printed at that time, was only printed on white paper but all 5 perf variations of the earlier issues exist. Of the five possible varieties, I only have two, the 13.5 all around and the 13.5x11.5. 13.5x11.5 (the first stamp on the left came from the recent giveaway by vikingeck ) 13.5 I had implied in one of my first couple of posts on this thread that I thought the "mandate" postmark might have something to do with various territorial mandates. This, however, is likely wrong. After exploring the romaniastamps.com website a bit more I came across an area devoted to town postmarks and the mandate postmark seems to have been pretty common and simply meant postal mandate in English. Needless to say, it and the Bucuresti (Bucharest) city name seem to be the most common postmarks on Romanian stamps with only a few exceptions in the collection I have put together.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 19, 2020 3:18:44 GMT
I have only one copy of the 40b King Ferdinand, Sc. #254, even though it comes in the same range of perf and paper varieties. My copy is 11.5 perf all around on war (gray paper). For consistency I have been placing the white paper varieties on my Steiner pages in the spaces provided for this issue. All other varieties have been going onto a quadrille page I created using Steiner's templates with the heading of Romania (not Scott listed and minor varieties). So that I can fill the pre-existing spaces, this one will probably go with the white paper varieties until I am able to get more perf and paper varieties of the 40 bani stamp. It occurs to me that one thing I have failed to talk about is color. The above stamp, again according to romaniastamp.com, comes in pale brown, deep brown and brown variations. Honestly, I always feel that I fail at accurately judging color even though I am sure that many of you can look back at this thread and see color variations in the previous stamps listed. I am going to pretty much continue to ignore this as I move through this definitive set but know that there are a large number of color varieties for each denomination. Also, as an update to the 10 bani denominations, I am incorporating the recent Romania stamps that I received as part of Vikingeck's giveaways and the 10 bani below is an example of an 11.5 perf variety on blue lint paper.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 19, 2020 3:48:08 GMT
The 50 bani, Sc.# 255, only comes in a white paper version, no war paper, but unlike the 40 bani, I have a number of different perforation varieties. The 50 bani comes in the full range, 13.5, 11.5, 11.5x13.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. There are also thin and very thin paper varieties. The 13.5 perforation seems to be the most common. The stamp on the far right is another incorporated from vikingeck's giveaway. Below is the 11.5 x 13.5 perforation variety. And finally, the 11.5 perforation. It is possible that this stamp was postmarked in Braila, a town/city in the southeast are of Romania, near the Black Sea.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 19, 2020 20:19:56 GMT
The 1 leu green, Sc. no. 256, was issued in January of 1920. The white paper stamp has 4 different perforation variations including 13.5, 11.5, 11.5x13.5 and 13.5x11.5. Of the three I have only the first two. I also seem to have a couple with more legible town/city names. This 11.5 perf is interesting because of the postmark as well. There are portions of two circular postmarks on this stamp. The upper postmark portion includes a large numeral 6 at the bottom as well as a portion of the date. Could this be a railroad cancellation of some kind? romaniastamps.com does not identify any railroad postal markings of any kind. On the bottom half of the postmark, however, is a circular stamp with a very faint "TEMESV..." which is the Hungarian name for the city of Timisoara in the western part of Romania. I have 2 copies of the 11.5x13.5 perf variety. The one on the left has a faint town name as follows, "...TUL de JOS..."? I am not sure that I am reading it correctly because the postmark is so faint that it blends in with the background. I was unable to locate a town name that matched even though there are many with the Romanian preposition "de" which in English means of, by, for or to in the name. I looked through a list of Romanian town names on Wikipedia and also on a Romania map included with Webster's Geographical Dictionary. Would love some help in identifying this. The war paper stamps come in 3 different perf variations, 11.5, 11.5x13.5 and 13.5x14.5. Of the three I only have a single copy of the 11.5 perf variety. The circular postmark has the beginning of a town name that starts with "O".
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 21, 2020 1:10:39 GMT
I was thinking about this cancellation this evening and it occurred to me that the postmark had to be Hungarian given the spelling TEMESVAR instead of Timisoara...a bit of a head-smacking moment actually. So I did a google search for "postmarks of Hungary". Here is the stamp again that I referenced earlier with the large numeral 6 and below that the top quarter of the circular postmark with the name of TEMESVAR. Then, if you look closely, you can see the top portion of the Crown of St. Stephen, a design motif common on Hungarian stamps of this pre-war time period which is what tipped me off and caused me to say..."duh". Sure enough, I found a Wikimedia Commons page filled with the Postmarks of Hungary at Postmarks of HungaryAt the bottom of the page are three cancellations from the World War I period and the last stamp in the row has the same postmark with the numeral 2. The Crown of St. Stephen is a bit blurred on this cancellation strike but it is there. By BRANDMAYER Vilmos - Own work, CC BY-SA 3.0, commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=25390368
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tobben63
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Post by tobben63 on Jan 21, 2020 7:27:54 GMT
I enjoy reading this tread darkormex. It will be a reference when i start to set up my Romania stamps. Yesterday I found a Little envelope with some of this stamps in, pair of two vertical and horisontal and a block of four + some singles.
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blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Jan 21, 2020 11:58:19 GMT
Great thread @darkomex. The romaniastamps website is a great resource, thanks for sharing.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 26, 2020 21:28:49 GMT
Let's explore the final group of high values in the King Ferdinand series as they have quite a bit in common as you will see in a moment. Let's start with the 2 lei, Sc. no. 258, orange, the last of the 1920 Ferdinand issue printed in January of 1920. Like the 50 bani, there is only a white paper version of this stamp, no gray war paper and no blue lint paper. However, also like the 50 bani, the whole range of perforation varieties apply here including 13.5, 11.5, 11.5x13.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. Of the five possible variations I have three: 13.5x11.5 perf The first stamp on the left below, in addition to having the postal mandate postmark it also has a town name of Medgidia, a city located between the Danube and the Black Sea in the eastern part of Romania. By the way, if you need a resource for figuring out the town names on Romanian postmarks, Wikipedia has you covered: List of Cities and Towns in Romania. This is also good because there is a brief bit about each town or city, or in some cases pages and pages of information like the entry for Bucharest. On the second stamp, right, I see a blurred circular postmark with what looks like the letters "TIM" which could mean it is from Timisoara but this is only speculation as it is too blurry and there is not enough text. 11.5 perf 13.5 perf
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 26, 2020 22:06:29 GMT
So let's keep going because except for one stamp the remaining high values were printed in May of 1921, like the 25 bani, brown which I talked about earlier in this thread. These two values are the 1 leu rose, Sc. no 257 and the 2 lei, deep blue, Sc. no. 259. Like the preceding 2 lei orange, the remaining high values only come in white paper, no gray or blue lint and there are the five different perforation varieties including 13.5, 11.5, 11.5x13.5, 13.5x11.5 and 13.5x14.5. Let me look at both values here and point out the interesting bits where I can find them. The 1 leu rose, 11.5 perf is below with the mandate postmark and including a date of August 20, 1921. 11.5 perf The 13.5 perf varieties below include a stamp on the far right with a very lightly struck postmark that includes the letters "ORV". There doesn't seem to be enough legible text for me to be able to puzzle out more of this town name. I also see a slightly different circular postmark in the middle stamp of the row with single no. 1. Possibly the town name for this postmark was at the bottom as there is a partial postmark at the top of this stamp with some partial letters showing. It is unfortunate that so many of these stamps do not have more "socked-on-the-nose" type postmarks as it would be interesting to see where they originated. 13.5 perf I have two perf variations of the 2 leu deep blue below. The left-most stamp cancellation seems to include the word "montain" though I could not identify a town or city name in Romania that included this. All of the stamps, in fact, in this row have such lightly struck cancellations that the town names are illegible which seems to be another common difficulty in identifying origins of these stamps. 13.5x11.5 perf 13.5 perf
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 26, 2020 22:20:46 GMT
Let's "cap" off this thread by looking at the final value of the "cap mare" or large head Ferdinand definitives, the 2 leu rose, printed in 1922. This is probably the least complicated of all of the stamps of this series as it comes in only 2 perforation varieties and, except for white paper, no other paper varieties. Of the 2 I have only this mint, hinged copy of the 13.5 perf variation, the other variation not shown is perf 13.5x14.5.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 26, 2020 23:05:22 GMT
As far as organizing and mounting I haven't delved into the create-your-own-pages thing too much yet and pretty much use Steiner at this point for all my album needs. I used Steiner's blank quadrille page template and put a title on it in similar font to his Romania pages. These pages will be used for all the varieties as I seem to have developed both a knowledge and interest in this particular definitive issue of Romania. I tended to mount the stamps in the middle of the page so that I could simply expand outward as I added varieties to my collection. I know my pages look a bit haphazard and messy as I use pencil to note catalogue number, perfs and paper and I seem to have not centered the stamp properly on the page when I initially started mounting, and then changed my mind along the way. But, who cares, anyway..it's my collection after all. I had vowed this year to spend some time on one area of philately and see it through to completion rather than jumping around from one country to another as I usually do and I feel like I accomplished this goal with this thread. I learned a lot about this one definitive issue of Romania thanks to romaniastamps.com. If you have any interest in Romanian stamps, I highly recommend this site as he has a wealth of information that you cannot get anywhere else seemingly. Collecting the stamps of Romania from this classic era period is worth exploring as there is a lot out there to flyspeck, research and it is fun when you find those hidden gems like the inverted overprint that I didn't realize I had. I hope all of you have enjoyed this thread and I hope at some point to continue with this or other stamps of Romania from this time period but for now I am going to move onto other things.
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stanley64
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Post by stanley64 on Jan 27, 2020 11:48:22 GMT
... I tended to mount the stamps in the middle of the page so that I could simply expand outward as I added varieties to my collection. I know my pages look a bit haphazard and messy as I use pencil to note catalogue number, perfs and paper and I seem to have not centered the stamp properly on the page when I initially started mounting, and then changed my mind along the way. But, who cares, anyway..it's my collection after all. Myself, I like the pages and you should be pleased with them darkormex. They are well organised, balanced and clearly a working collection, not just a jeweler's display case; although gems in their own right ;-)
The first page is ideal for setting the stage and showing the issue in its entirety with the following pages being the working bits that easily allow for adding new finds as discovered.I like to format especially for earlier issues as anyone knows who has played with these, they have their share of perforations, colour variations, paper types, plate flaws, etc. and not all of them catalogued - this format ideal for such a study. Well done!
Thanks for sharing as I for one, have enjoyed the thread...
Happy collecting!
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blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Jan 27, 2020 19:25:50 GMT
darkormex - I echo what stanley64 said. Your way of organizing the varieties is simplistic and yet genious at the same time. That was exactly how I originally planned to sort my varieties to, until I got too involved in creating my own pages. But creating specialized pages for all such varieties does take a lot of time - in particular when specialized catalogs offer tons of varieties - your approach is a huge timesaver. And the basic set on proper pages followed by a 'quadrille-playground' also make it more clear that these are just that - varieties - and thus a sens of a specialized collection. Well done! I will consider the same approach for certain areas with a wealth of varieties, where making pages for all the varieties simply gets overwhelming. The first that comes to mind is Victoria - and the posthorns of Norway! My brother Jens barbu is creating custom pages for Rumania as we speak - that stampsite is excellent reference, thanks for sharing.
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 27, 2020 23:40:25 GMT
stanley64 and blaamand, thank you for your thoughts on this. I like the idea of a "quadrille-playground". When I look at the Romania Stamps website there are just so many varieties that I thought this would be best. I like to use black mounts as you have probably noticed and one consistent thing about this particular set is that they are pretty consistent in height so I can place empty 28mm mounts in the appropriate places for later varieties that I come across.
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renden
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Post by renden on Jan 28, 2020 13:35:14 GMT
Great work darkormex ! My Romania stamps have gone to another member in a trade but I love to see your posts - Thanks René
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darkormex
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Post by darkormex on Jan 28, 2020 17:23:35 GMT
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