Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 13, 2020 14:04:13 GMT
Certain older Vario sheets have problems with yellowing. I can only accept clear, unyellowed pages. Funny you should mention that because I have some older ones that are Yellowed and also some that are yellowed on one side and not on the other. It always intrigued me and am happy to see someone else knows about it. I don't use the yellow types as the stamps appear an odd colour. That's how I first noticed them....I scanned some stamps and when I looked on screen I did not understand at first what had happened. I did hear that there were large batches where this occurred but could not get details.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,655
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Mar 13, 2020 14:50:30 GMT
Londonbus1 - I should contact the company and see if they will replace them. I’ve noticed the problem on 4 row clear, 3 row black, 2 row black and one row black. Check out how badly these four row have yellowed:
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Mar 13, 2020 16:38:51 GMT
If the stockpages came yellowed, they should exchange it for you -- this is a problem with the original plastic batch. If the yellowing appeared over time, you can still try, but they may tell you it was caused by UV exposure over time (the sun is not the only source of UV light). Basically, the surface of the plastic is being oxidized. I had noticed this yellowing on clear stockpages I had purchased in Asia in the 1970s. The clear plastics used in most stocksheets absorb shortwavelength UV light very well. This is why you can't observe luminescent tagging on stamps using Vario stocksheets or in mounts. However, things like " Poly-Pro" sheets (used in those nice mint sheet album pages) are fairly transparent to UV light and you can observe tagging! They don't oxidize, so they won't turn yellow. The harder old-style clear plastic mint sheet pages made with the more traditional clear plastics, will absorb UV light and some will also turn yellow. The way to stop oxidation on clear plastic sheets is to add UV stabilizers or keep it away from long-term exposure to UV/warmth. I don't know the specific plastic used on each stockpage brand, and many of them are likely proprietary mixes. Long-term warmth will also cause the plastics to turn yellow (and for thin plastics, they become brittle and start cracking/flaking). There is a quick way to see if your stockpages were oxidized by some UV source: use a diluted mix of vinegar and water, and scrub a small part of your stockpage with a cotton ball (test an area that is single-layer plastic, as occasionally the underlying plastic may have also oxidized slightly). You can add a little baking soda to make it gritty and more abrasive. Bleach solution is even more effective, but I don't suggest using bleach for obvious reasons. If it is surface oxidation cause by UV, in most cases the yellow will slowly be removed chemically and abrasively. Of course, don't re-use cleaned stocksheets, it's not worth the risk to your stamps. This is just to convince yourself that your yellowing is cause by UV exposure. Otherwise, the yellowing is caused by something else (plasticizer acids..., basically stuff they aren't supposed to use in archival films). Also, never use yellowed stocksheets!!! Long-term, it will transfer onto the surface of your stamps!!! I found out the hard way on those Asian stocksheets back in the 1970s. In the 1990s, I found the mint stamps I had put into them originally in the 1970s had also yellowed, but the stamps I had inserted just a few years prior in the late 1980s were still OK visibly. Fortunately, it wasn't a lot of stamps, but still...
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,655
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Mar 13, 2020 20:31:15 GMT
Thank you for the great information khj. Your post is just so extremely useful that perhaps our excellent moderators could move these posts to the Philatelic supplies board so it doesn’t get lost. ( Londonbus1, @ tomiseksj) I have been going through my collection hunting down and removing anything yellowed. Once I finish, I’ll inventory and come up with a quantity then contact the manufacturer. I believe I have several hundred of these so I sincerely hope they will replace them!
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,702
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Mar 13, 2020 23:34:46 GMT
I have quite a few Vario pages (most purchased around 2006) and have not seen any yellowing. The biggest issue I have had is with the bottom row bottom either not sealed or opens easily.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Mar 13, 2020 23:58:33 GMT
In general, I don't recall having experienced problems with yellowing on any Vario pages (including Centurion) purchased new since the mid-1990s. I believe that is shortly after they started pushing to move away from certain plasticizers. I use maybe a few thousand purchased after the mid-1990s, but that is still a small sampling. Only my limited experience. However, the ones from the 1970s and 1980s are a different story. I did notice the earlier ones are much harder (i.e., not as flexible) plastic.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 21, 2020 13:19:48 GMT
I started to purchase my Vario pages from around 1995, possibly a little sooner. Today I have been checking 3 albums and have found, and removed, 20 pages that were either all yellow or yellow on one side, the latter I have found being the most common. It meant double checking as I had to check both sides. I have around 30 pages now in my 'dead' drawer with still about 40 albums to check although some of those are much later from the Mid-2000's. Now I am running out of replacements and with no hope of getting any for some time I fear I will have hundreds or even thousands of loose stamps and sheets lying around !!! There's a virus outside the home and now I feel like I have a virus inside too !! Shucks !! But there's worse things around so no complaints. I have written to Lighthouse to see what they might say about it but with everything going on I do not expect a reply too soon !! We will wait and see. Londonbus1
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 24, 2020 20:52:55 GMT
philatelia.... khj and anyone else who may have a similar situation/problem or just an interest. I have just received a reply from Lighthouse Customer Service in New Jersey and they have assured me that the yellow pages will not have any adverse effect on the stamps but it's quite possible that they did not do enough testing to know for sure. They have offered to replace all my yellowed pages, I just need to send them a list of how many I have in that condition with some information on where I purchase my Vario sheets. So now I have to go through all my albums and see how many more I have. They sounded very concerned in the email and were very apologetic. I'll start on this tomorrow if work allows !! Londonbus1
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Mar 25, 2020 20:13:55 GMT
Great, thanks for the update, LB1!
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jan 7, 2021 12:11:10 GMT
philatelia .... khj and anyone else who may have a similar situation/problem or just an interest. I have just received a reply from Lighthouse Customer Service in New Jersey and they have assured me that the yellow pages will not have any adverse effect on the stamps but it's quite possible that they did not do enough testing to know for sure. They have offered to replace all my yellowed pages, I just need to send them a list of how many I have in that condition with some information on where I purchase my Vario sheets. So now I have to go through all my albums and see how many more I have. They sounded very concerned in the email and were very apologetic. I'll start on this tomorrow if work allows !! Londonbus1 I thought I should follow up on this as I saw mention of the pages again some days back. As my enquiries were made at the start of the pandemic I understood that any solution might take time. But having given them scans of the bad pages, all the info they need and been in touch on numerous occasions, the responses slowly dried up and now there are none ! Recent attempts to get this moving and have some pages to use whilst in Lockdown have proved fruitless. It's like they have disappeared from the face of the earth. So if anyone else with defective pages follows up on their problem and has some success, please let me know or send a link. Because I am getting nowhere. Not even a reply. Thank you Londonbus1
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,655
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Jan 7, 2021 14:49:08 GMT
I think we should consider a group letter and state that if the faulty material is not replaced or compensated that we will post pictures of the sheets on all the Internet forums and write to all the major publications to bring attention to their failure to back their product. This product was advertised as "archival quality" and sheets so yellowed as to make colors difficult to discern are NOT acceptable. I mean look at the color! I have about 500 sheets I can't use! That's a LOT of expense! Plus it took me over a WEEK to remove these from my collection.
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philatelia
Member
Captain Jack - my best kiloware find ever!
Posts: 3,655
What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Jan 7, 2021 14:56:07 GMT
In the meantime, I'll ask on Stamporama if anyone else has any of these and if they have had any success getting them replaced.
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Jan 7, 2021 19:51:18 GMT
I hadn't noticed in your earlier post that it had affected hundreds of your Varios. That's a lot, and almost certainly a batch problem -- especially if the yellowing is relatively uniform.
Regarding non-response -- this doesn't surprise me. A lot of businesses have cut back dramatically on employees/hours. A lot of business-related interactions I've had are now super-slow in response. Buying things, quick response. Post-sales inquiries... well you guessed it.
Local businesses are much better. We over-ordered commercial-grade material for our office remodeling. It was already past the return window. We contacted, they immediately responded that they would still let us return the material. So kudos to the businesses that still keep up customer service & are also still willing to accommodate even if legally they didn't have to!
Hope you all are successful in getting your Varios replaced!
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jan 7, 2021 21:40:16 GMT
Here's an image I sent to them. They didn't even acknowledge that they received them. I tried a few times. I will try again tomorrow.
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ameis33
Member
What's in a name? That which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet
Posts: 546
What I collect: Poland and Italy Republic
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Post by ameis33 on Jan 7, 2021 21:57:47 GMT
I didn't get when those pages hae been purchased... We're speaking of recent products (i.e. less then 10 years) or older? Which kind of plastic are they made of? Polyethylene, Polypropylene, ABS, PVC? That's maybe difficult to know... Last time i've asked Bolaffi which material are their mounts made of, the answer has been something like: good enough to keep stamps...
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Jan 7, 2021 22:34:35 GMT
I doubt if any manufacturer would reveal the exact mix of their material. Quite frankly, you have to take their word and definition of "archival" -- which doesn't mean "forever".
But if you have 500 Varios turning yellow, and not all the other Varios are turning yellow, it stands to reason it has to be a manufacturing material defect.
Again, this is the first I've heard this happen with Varios (but my personal sampling size is only a few thousand). So I'm really surprised to hear that this has happened to so many different collectors. This is a quality control and reputation issue, so Lighthouse needs to address this quickly. I've been willing to pay a little extra for Varios because of quality/reputation. But if in the end, statistically they run into same problems as other manufacturers, then I might as well save more money and purchase well-established alternatives of very close quality for which I've not had yellowing problems.
Thanks for all the updates!
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Jan 8, 2021 7:05:35 GMT
Sent very polite but slightly demanding email to Lighthouse (Lorri) this morning. I will let you know if there is a response. I wish I could do the same for eBay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"I still have all those items in envelopes and small cards" etc etc
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tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,874
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Jan 8, 2021 7:09:57 GMT
I don't bay Vario pages but I do have some that has com with auction lot's I have bought. I see that a lot of them has a yellow tone. But I have not investigated further in this and as this is not my main storage albums I just leave them as they are.
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 16, 2021 10:08:25 GMT
Since my post in January I have sent a number of messages/emails to Lighthouse without reply so I have given up on that one. My in initial contact, who was very responsive and supportive, has most likely been given a rollicking (or worse) for offering to replace them. I am binning mine but still need to get to a stamp shop and buy replacements. The thought of having nice stamps/cinderellas lying around in packets or envelopes does not appeal.
Londonbus1
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khj
Member
Posts: 1,524
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Post by khj on Mar 16, 2021 13:29:17 GMT
Given the premium tacked on by Lighthouse for "reputation" & "quality", this does not bode well for their status in my small philatelic mind. Why pay extra if your quality control issues are no better than the next best knock-off?
I quit buying Lighthouse stockbooks for the same reason of equivalent quality control. Why pay $5-$10 extra for that little diamond logo? I collect stamps, not logos. They are nice, and it's no big deal if you are just getting half a dozen. But once you get up into the dozens, it's a noticeable chunk of change. Of course I'll buy LH if it is essentially same price as a generic. But since I typically buy 5-10 stockbooks at a time, I'll opt for the "quality" generic if it's several bucks cheaper per volume. JMHO
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Mar 31, 2021 14:49:53 GMT
It's only fair to the Leuchtturm Group that I post the latest on this Vario saga. Having not heard anything for a couple of months, and posting here in the meantime, there has been some good news. Lighthouse of New York, with whom I had been talking to, sent my details and notes of the problem to the producers in Germany. I then received a very apologetic email from Leuchtturm who said they would send me 2 packets of each type (black) to compensate for those damaged. They have now been despatched to me here in Israel and I will post here when they arrive. This is good news for others ( philatelia, for example) who have had similar problems. Moral: Complaints should therefore be made to the source !! Fingers crossed. Londonbus1
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Post by dgdecker on Mar 31, 2021 16:50:03 GMT
It's only fair to the Leuchtturm Group that I post the latest on this Vario saga. Having not heard anything for a couple of months, and posting here in the meantime, there has been some good news. Lighthouse of New York, with whom I had been talking to, sent my details and notes of the problem to the producers in Germany. I then received a very apologetic email from Leuchtturm who said they would send me 2 packets of each type (black) to compensate for those damaged. They have now been despatched to me here in Israel and I will post here when they arrive. This is good news for others ( philatelia , for example) who have had similar problems. Moral: Complaints should therefore be made to the source !! Fingers crossed. Londonbus1 So glad you finally have a positive response. It has been a long saga for you. David
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Londonbus1
Moderator
Cinderella Stamp Club Member 3059
Posts: 5,064
What I collect: Wonderland; 1912 Jubilee International Stamp Exhibition, London ('Ideal' Stamp, ephemera); French Cinderellas with an emphasis on Poster Stamps; Israel and Palestine Cinderellas ; Jewish National Fund Stamps, Labels and Tags; London 2010, A Festival of Stamps (anything); South Africa 1937 Coronation issue of KGVI, singles or bi-lingual pairs.
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Post by Londonbus1 on Apr 19, 2021 13:55:34 GMT
19 days after my last update on this matter, the Vario pages have arrived. 18 packets in total in black, 2 of each type. Total of 90 sheets. They arrived this morning but only after a last-minute hitch. Credit to Leuchtturm, they stated on the invoice that they were 'Free' and no charge was made. But the Customs form told another tale to those who want money and they charged me 17 Euros to free the packet from their greedy clutches !! I had no choice. Still a big saving if I popped into Tel Aviv to buy some (which was the plan), I would have only got 2 packets for those 17 Euros........Tax is high here which is why I usually buy in the UK. The latter is most likely no longer an option post-Brexit. Such is life. So I am happy that now I can continue to sort my mess out without lots of work. I recommend to any one who has had similar problems to contact the source, Leuchtturm, in Germany for faster results.
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