JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Aug 18, 2021 11:28:22 GMT
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 20, 2021 20:00:43 GMT
Hello again, everyone! I have now received a couple of responses to other queries about this unusual Cape triangle. Here are the comments from Richard Debney, a noted 50-year+ specialist in Cape triangles: Well, Richard's comments are interesting. I had also suspected a fiscal cancel, so this makes sense to me, but I suppose I hadn't really considered that when roulettes are rare or questionable for a particular stamp, of course, being on cover or on piece would make a big difference. But as a side note, I would mention that rouletted Cape triangles not on cover were presented in the Sotheby's auction of the famous Maxwell Joseph Cape triangle collection back in 1982. Perhaps they had accompanying expertizing certificates. I have also found some bank markings on Cape triangles, and that also seems like a reasonable possibility. I wonder if it was good-sized bank, if it is possible that the bank could have privately rouletted their own stock of stamps for use by their clerks? Don't know if there is any validity to that line of thinking, but it did occur to me. During my search for possible info on the stamp in question, I also came upon the Cape & Natal Study Circle. I should mention that membership is free, so of course, at that price, how could I go wrong? I signed up for the Study Circle, and I now have access to their newsletter archives. Definitely some downloading to do! www.capenatalstamps.com/I also asked the head of the group for his opinion about the stamp, and he said to treat the roulettes as a forged feature of the stamp until they could be proven otherwise.
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imperialwaltzing
**Member**
Inactive
Posts: 22
What I collect: Austria, interesting covers, signed space covers, anything else I find interesting
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Post by imperialwaltzing on Sept 5, 2021 16:49:14 GMT
I was sorting through a mixed lot yesterday and came upon this. I used the postmark reference site that someone shared earlier, but I can’t quite make out the number before the 5. Does anyone have any ideas on what the postmark might be? I joined the Cape & Natal Study Circle, too, because I’m intrigued!
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tomiseksj
Moderator
Woodbridge, Virginia, USA
Posts: 6,385
What I collect: Worldwide stamps/covers, Cinderellas, Ohio Prepaid Sales Tax Receipts, U.S. WWII Ration ephemera
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Post by tomiseksj on Sept 5, 2021 18:56:03 GMT
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WERT
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Sept 5, 2021 19:09:20 GMT
I see what maybe a "55"...just my opinion..Could be wrong...Did it because i saw a brake on both digits which might be "55" Robert
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imperialwaltzing
**Member**
Inactive
Posts: 22
What I collect: Austria, interesting covers, signed space covers, anything else I find interesting
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Post by imperialwaltzing on Sept 6, 2021 5:53:01 GMT
I could definitely see both. I was leaning towards 65, but I am seeing what you’re seeing to say 55. There does appear to be a similar break to the 5 on the right. However, having a look at the 55 BONC on the postmarks site shows that was only in use until 1891 (if I am reading correctly). I have no expertise in this area, so I will defer to you all.
Also, thanks for the retro reveal site! That might prove to be useful.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 16, 2021 12:02:38 GMT
This thread started as post marks on Cape of Good Hope , referred to as Barred Oval Numeral cancels BONC and usually part of a duplex handstamp we had the opening discussion . However these were preceded by a more delicate attractive cancel called the Barred Numeral Cancel , BNC type . Here are two . I believe 1 is Capetown but where is 5 ?
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JeffS
Member
Posts: 2,837
What I collect: Oranges Philately, US Slogan Cancels, Cape of Good Hope Triangulars, and Texas poster stamps and cinderellas
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Post by JeffS on Oct 16, 2021 15:52:23 GMT
This thread started as post marks on Cape of Good Hope , referred to as Barred Oval Numeral cancels BONC and usually part of a duplex handstamp we had the opening discussion Alex, I believe once out of Cape Town, the BONCs were free-standing obliterators.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 17, 2021 20:18:33 GMT
Now should I add these to the Cape Postmarks or start a new thread for Mafeking in the Boer War? ( don’t answer that …merely a rhetorical musing! ) In 1899 the town of Mafeking which administered the Bechuanaland district was surrounded and besieged by the Boer forces for 7 months until relieved in May 1900. Mail could get out but waggon trains of supplies could not get to the garrison. Existing stocks of stamps were overprinted and surcharged for use Local township rate 1penny
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 17, 2021 20:25:21 GMT
Three pence was the delivery to Capetown etc ]ht
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 18, 2021 21:25:24 GMT
When stocks of Cape of good Hope stamps were exhausted, the military commander of Mafeking . Lt. col. Robert Baden-Powell authorised locally produced 1d and 3d stamps . These were prepared by a photographic process to give a range of blue toned images from pale blue to very deep blue. The local postal service was organised with junior cadet cyclists delivering Mail , this depicts cadet Sergeant Goodyear. (apologies for the white marks , the glossy photo nature of the stamps has picked up reflections)
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,886
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Oct 19, 2021 22:16:39 GMT
Going through the large lot envelopes of stamps by country I have made it to the Cape of Good Hope. Nothing special with one damaged triangle but I did like this clear 684 postmark on this common stamp. I found a resource site but did not want to take the time to search for the town or city. I just liked that it is so clear. Thanks to vikingeck for suggesting that the 684 appears to be for Bathurst.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 20, 2021 16:31:48 GMT
hdm1950 your " 684" is probably BATHURST The locally produced 3d from besieged Mafeking in 1900 caused no end of controversy when it was seen in Britain ... featuring no less a person than Col Baden Powell himself ! "Self promotion" was the kindest criticism
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 21, 2021 19:44:06 GMT
I have also found some bank markings on Cape triangles, and that also seems like a reasonable possibility. I wonder if it was good-sized bank, if it is possible that the bank could have privately rouletted their own stock of stamps for use by their clerks? Don't know if there is any validity to that line of thinking, but it did occur to me. I apologize that it has taken me so long to post again about this stamp that I showed earlier. I finally found another image that at least shows that the "D" is indeed most likely part of a fiscal cancel for "PAID" but with the letters spaced further apart than I had imagined. In fairness, I should mention that this possibility was pointed out to me in a PM by someone who was briefly a member, but never made an intro post, and then had his account deleted. To be honest, I had already considered the possibility of a "PAID" cancel, but I discounted it because I didn't think that the letters in the cancel would have been spaced so far apart. In the example that I originally posted, you can just see a small black spot that very likely represents the tip of the "I" in "PAID". Now, I finally found an image that shows more of the cancel and suggests that it is quite likely that: COGH, SG5a*, with "ID" of "PAID" fiscal cancel *Catalogue identification (mine) is hopefully correct, but hard to be completely sure due to poor quality of scanned image
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 22, 2021 10:18:15 GMT
Hi Chris Beryllium Guy Now that you have found the second example with the “I” as well as the “D”, we can just see a hint of that letter on your original as a small black speck under CAPE - OF
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 22, 2021 10:28:52 GMT
Thanks, Alex ( vikingeck), I completely agree with you about the black speck. By the way, just wanted to mention how much I have been enjoying your beautiful Mafeking postmark examples. Really excellent! I decided to change the thread name to include them, as I think they are philatelically very important. Many thanks for sharing them with us.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 22, 2021 21:36:24 GMT
The last of my Mafeking CGH postmarks is a part strike on a 3 times overprinted British stamp , now ain’t that 🤩 🤩 fun ? GB Queen Victoria penny lilac Overprint 1. BECHUANALAND PROTECTORATE. (Mafeking was the Admin centre) Overprint 2 MAFEKING BESIEGED Overprint 3. A surcharge. Threepence. 3d.
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sudbury12000
Member
Posts: 360
What I collect: Canada, Great Britain, Germany, World Pre 1925
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Post by sudbury12000 on Jan 24, 2023 15:54:19 GMT
I hope I am posting this on the correct thread as I see Mafeking in the title and of course postmarks. I was reading about the siege of Mafeking and started looking for stamps used some years ago. No luck in my price range, but then I was looking at a COGH collection and these were not mentioned as anything special. They were mostly interested in the high value EVII values in the description. I did see them and bought them. Thoughts of authenticity are most welcome. I do know there was a very small window these could be used and they all look to hammered with the same hammer. I could be wrong. And I like tobben63 am a postmark junkie as well. If it was a real stamp, it should have been used.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jan 24, 2023 20:04:04 GMT
Often hard to read the date because of all the overprinting and surcharge , but early 1900 should be OK as the town was not relieved from siege until May .
I can see APR on the one penny/3d. and MR 30 on the 4d/ 1/- ……. Seem genuine used. I have no reason to doubt the other two either.
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clivel
Member
Posts: 385
What I collect: Basutoland, Bechuanaland, Rhodesias, South Africa, Swaziland, Israel to 1980, Ireland predecimal, Palestine Mandate
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Post by clivel on Jan 24, 2023 20:47:29 GMT
.. Thoughts of authenticity are most welcome. I do know there was a very small window these could be used and they all look to hammered with the same hammer. Mafeking Besieged stamps are known with both forged overprints as well as cancellations. Apparently, all siege mail was cancelled with the same cancelling device. The cancellations on your stamps appear to be of the correct type. However, as far as I am aware the word MAFEKING on a genuine cancel touches the circle in a number of places, whereas, for example on your 3d stamp it appears spaced away from it. I am far from an expert on these so please check with someone more knowledgeable before putting your stamps through the shredder The other thing to look out for is that all Mafeking Besieged mail was postmarked between 23rd March 1900 and 17th May 1900 so any cancellations outside of these dates are almost certainly forged. Also, many forged cancellations are dated 23rd April 1900, so any cancellations with this date should be suspect. Clive
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,546
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jan 24, 2023 20:55:31 GMT
I bow to clivel on these, he says he is no expert, but he evidently has more background knowledge than me. Mine may be suspect after all?
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Post by michael on Aug 26, 2024 14:40:23 GMT
With respect to the PAID postmark a few posts ago (2021), I spotted this on another forum.
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