blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Jun 10, 2020 20:15:08 GMT
The first definitive issue of Finland after the Monetary reform in 1963 is an interesting one, so I think it deserves it's own thread. I've just studied them in more detail than before, and realize I did have a lot to learn. So, I was thinking other collectors could be interested as well? The low denominations are made up by the Finnish Lion, from the Finnish Coat of Arms:  The most obvious aspect about the Finnish lions, is that they come in Type I and Type II, as mentioned in most catalogs. I made this to illustrate:  The differences in the rings around the values might sometimes be somewhat difficult to identify. However the difference in thickness off the inner vertical frame-line at left is much more apparent, but ignored by most catalogs.
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
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Post by blaamand on Jun 10, 2020 20:30:06 GMT
The next aspect to look for is paper, both Type I and Type II comes on different papers. Type I was first issued on a ‘normal’ dull paper, without whitener. It is slightly brownish/yellowish in daylight. In UV light it will according to Facit appear ‘dirty brown’, which I think fits very well. It was next printed on a paper with whitener, giving what is supposed to be an ‘Optical white’ appearance in daylight – and a white-violet glow in UV light. Finally 3 of the values of Type I can also be found on phosphorous paper, which in UV light will have a very strong yellow glow – and a significant afterglow after the UV light is turned off (in a dark room obviously). I captured the pictures below to indicate the difference in papers.   Unlike many other paper varieties involving the need to use UV light, the differences on these are very significant and gives little room for interpretation (read: frustration)! Many catalogs does not give a good overview of which values comes on which papers, so here you have it. (Type I only)   The image above shows how the entire page appears in UV light - quite significant differences! The dull papers at top can hardly be seen by the camera at all. I hope anyone gets inspired to have a more detailed look at their Finnish lions Next up is the different papers used for Type II - which is more complicate - so maybe tomorrow...
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Post by spain1850 on Jun 10, 2020 21:43:57 GMT
This is an awesome thread, very helpful for those of us who like to take common stamps to the next level. It's especially helpful to me, as I have a hard time sometimes visualizing what the Facit catalog tries to explain. Many times it really helps to have a visual example, for comparison. Between this and looking for the forerunner cancels from Åland, it almost makes me want to jump right in and start going through my own Finland stamps.
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 10, 2020 22:41:10 GMT
Thank you for the kind words spain1850. I agree about Facit, its listings are a bit dense and complicated to comprehend, with all varieties of each stamp listed in a long list, often with only codes to identify them. It would have been easier to read if the series were listed in several batches, for each kind of perforations, papers, wnks etc. Besides of that I find Facit fantastic. Glad you're enjoying the thread and got tempted to look at Finland again. I find that a very valuable part of this forum, getting inspiration from other members. Stay Stampy all, Jon
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ameis33
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Post by ameis33 on Jun 11, 2020 20:38:30 GMT
I like definitive issues. All the same but all differents...
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blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2020 20:09:51 GMT
Time to continue the simplified intro to the Finnish lions  Type II of the Finnish Lions are found on 5 different papers:   1) The 'Optical white' (HaP) paper, which was also used for Type I, was used for most of the denominations. This has some fluorescence effect, but no phosphorous - no afterglow. 2) A paper with white phosphorescence on front, and white/violet glow on reverse (in UV). This is coded 'HaQ' in Facit and is only found on 4 different stamps 3) A paper with a distinct yellow phosphorescence on front, but without whitener in the pulp which makes the reverse look dirty brown (in UV). This is coded 'BoQ' in Facit and was used for 6 different stamps. The 30p and 40p are less common. 4+5) Finally there are two different papers that are both having yellowish phosphoresence on front and and white/violet glow on reverse (in UV). These are coded 'EQpQ' and 'HapQ' in Facit. The difference between them is by the level of coating/glossiness on the front - and difference in how yellow or white the glow is under UV. (I didn't attempt to differentiate between them, so I have them together on my album page. One can see some slight differences in the yellow glow on my stamps, in particular the 60p is less yellow, but I don't know if these differences are actually due to different papers or if some of the phosphour simply being washed off) Additionally there are a few sub-types of Type II, on a variety of papers, ref the bottom line on my page. The illustrations in Facit for these sub-types/varieties are not the best, so if anyone is curious I can share some close up images to better show the differences.
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norsten
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What I collect: Definitives from Western Europe, Swedish postmarks
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Post by norsten on Jun 12, 2020 21:05:48 GMT
Additionally there are a few sub-types of Type II, on a variety of papers, ref the bottom line on my page. The illustrations in Facit for these sub-types/varieties are not the best, so if anyone is curious I can share some close up images to better show the differences. Yes, please do! I think the Lion type m/63 (and also next coat-of-arms series)are fascinating with so many variants. I do also struggle with the difference between the two paper types that have both fluorescence and phosphorescence.
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blaamand
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2020 21:10:00 GMT
This definitive series also have the high-values made up by pictorial designs, similar as for the last definitive issue before the currency reform. All the 'old designs' were used again, and a few new designs were added. The high-values were also printed on different papers, the same papers as already described for the low-values. At first all the 'old designs' from the old-currency issues were printed on a dull paper, then again on a paper with whitener.   Towards the end of the period, a few of the high-values were also printed on the various phosphorous papers, again the same as used for the low-values. For details of which type of paper for which, please refer to the description below each stamp (click for better resolution). Unfortunately I didn't find them all.   (I opted to include the Bus stamps with the definitives, as these were all 'working horses' issued after the monetary reform, and as such belong together in the timeline.) I hope this little intro can be useful for some, and that you might look at these workhorses with new eyes  I always find the definitive stamps the most interesting, and the definitives of Finland are no exception. Have fun!
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 12, 2020 21:21:18 GMT
Yes, please do! I think the Lion type m/63 (and also next coat-of-arms series)are fascinating with so many variants. I do also struggle with the difference between the two paper types that have both fluorescence and phosphorescence. Yes, these are fascinating series! I have just started to look at the next coat of arms series, that is a study in itself as well! thanks for your interest norsten - I will make a few close-ups of the sub-types I have.....later Regarding those papers that are almost similar: I absolutely understand that you struggle with them  I tried to make sense of them at first, but it seemed to be all guess-work, so I just aborted it. As a more general collector, I need to set the line somewhere. I am sure there are much more knowledgeable / specialized Finland collectors that can lead you in the right direction - if you still want to separate between the 'EGpQ' and 'HapQ' paper types?
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jun 13, 2020 1:42:03 GMT
I love that series! Very easy to determine what type you have. The Centennial and Prime Minister/Landscape definitives of Canada are so annoying in amounts of fluorescence of each value... NF - no florescence DF - dull florescence LF - low florescence F - fluorescent paper MF - medium florescence HF - high florescence HB - hibrite paper SF - speckled fluorescence To me, dull, low and fluorescent look to be about the same, as well as medium and high. Hibrite and none is very easy to spot, along with speckled. This set looks very interesting! Maybe I look for some, although I can live vicariously through your excellent collection, Jon! ( blaamand)
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 13, 2020 14:11:12 GMT
brightonpeteFunny you mentioned the Centennials  . My ongoing project while at home (when not offshore) is exactly that series. Trying to identify all those papers are certainly giving me grey hair! I've found some of them very hard/impossible to differentiate - so I am going for an approach were I am "grouping" as follows NF - DF/LF - MF/F - HF/Hibrite - SF, reducing from 8 to 5 categories - which still is a stretch for my patience and causing frustration.(And on top of that comes the different taggings....) So, I was thinking exactly as you, the papers for these Finnish lions are so much easier to identify than the Centennials. I can recommend trying this series, it's a walk in the park in comparison
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blaamand
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Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 14, 2020 9:15:32 GMT
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norsten
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What I collect: Definitives from Western Europe, Swedish postmarks
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Post by norsten on Jun 14, 2020 10:14:03 GMT
Thank You blaamand ! REally helpful, and your images is much better than the illustrations in my old Facit catalogue. I wonder if the difference in the 0.20m stamps may be due to plate error or something else? This unit from a slot machine booklet has both varieties; The middle stamp has a dot and the right has no dot. 
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blaamand
Member
Currently creating custom pages until 1940.
Posts: 1,459
What I collect: Worldwide - Stamps and Postmarks - not enough time...
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Post by blaamand on Jun 14, 2020 10:45:30 GMT
norsten Yes, I am thinking the same. I have the full booklet strip, and observed exactly the same as you - the left 0,20 with the dot, the right being normal. Quite particular  Glad the images were helpful! My Facit is the same as your I believe, I couldn't really make much sense of the illustrations in there unfortunately.
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