charleso
**Member** 
Inactive
UK stamp price goes up to 85 pence in January 2021. How does that compare to other countries?
Posts: 22
What I collect: chess, patent thematics
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Post by charleso on Nov 2, 2020 9:51:53 GMT
I'd be very happy to do a zoom presentation on copyright issues, explaining more about my views on catalogue numbers as well as other topics. Feel free to contact me with more information on how to set this up.
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charleso
**Member**
Inactive
UK stamp price goes up to 85 pence in January 2021. How does that compare to other countries?
Posts: 22
What I collect: chess, patent thematics
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Post by charleso on Nov 2, 2020 9:55:19 GMT
As it happens right now I am preparing a talk on patents and philately for a zoom presentation at my local society. Happy to offer this to others on the Forum as well.
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cursus
Member 
Posts: 2,011 
What I collect: Catalan Cinderellas. Used Switzerland, UK, Scandinavia, Germany & Austria. Postal History of Barcelona & Estonia. Catalonia pictorial postmarks.
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Post by cursus on Nov 2, 2020 10:08:08 GMT
It will be very interesting! I look foward for it.  to TSF.
Joan Catalonia
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cjoprey
Member
Scanning stamps for my website...
Posts: 1,504
What I collect: Belgium (predominantly), British Commonwealth (older ones), WW (whatever comes my way...)
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Post by cjoprey on Nov 2, 2020 11:51:57 GMT
I'd be very happy to do a zoom presentation on copyright issues, explaining more about my views on catalogue numbers as well as other topics. Feel free to contact me with more information on how to set this up. Hi Charles, We've recently had a series of Zoom meetings for the forum, so people are already getting used to using this technology. I would recommend you start a new thread in the Meetings board to suggest the meeting, and I'm sure others will jump in to help with dates and such: thestampforum.boards.net/board/656/forum-meetings. Thanks, Chris. |
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charleso
**Member**
Inactive
UK stamp price goes up to 85 pence in January 2021. How does that compare to other countries?
Posts: 22
What I collect: chess, patent thematics
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Post by charleso on Nov 2, 2020 13:40:55 GMT
Moderator Note: This new thread was created based on a response to the thread I Have Another Hobby, created by Dave ( sherro ) in Jan-2019
sherro said: Sorry, but your statement is incorrect. Just because you own (or have owned) a particular stamp does not give you any rights in the stamp's image. Just reproducing it on a Forum like this is probably OK, but creating merchandise from it is high risk. Of course, if the stamps are sufficiently old to no longer have any copyright, then you are OK
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator 
Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
Member is Online
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 2, 2020 15:55:31 GMT
Many thanks for your post, Charles ( charleso). I am glad to see you reading some of the content and responding. You raise an interesting point about copyrighting about which I feel sure that most of us are not knowledgeable, but may well be interested in learning more. I, for one, would be interested in understanding when copyrights constitute a valid claim and when not. Rather than divert this thread into a discussion about copyrights as they pertain to philately, may I suggest that you start a new thread to properly introduce the rest of us to the subject? I think it has the potential to generate enough interest as a discussion topic to merit its own thread. Thanks, Chris  |
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rex
Member
Posts: 1,216
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Post by rex on Nov 2, 2020 18:18:50 GMT
It almost seems that you feel guilty ..? You should not ! I collect antiques of all kinds and at the same time I am a proud philatelist.
No criticism should be directed at you. !
Having interests in life enriches it.
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 7,213
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Nov 2, 2020 18:35:34 GMT
I concur. I would be very interested to attend such a talk.
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Nov 2, 2020 19:02:43 GMT
Interested also !
René
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gatodiablo
Member
Posts: 456
What I collect: Places I've been, and places I want to go.
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Post by gatodiablo on Nov 2, 2020 19:14:54 GMT
In the US, stamps printed before 1971 are not protected by copyright law, as they were produced by the US government - no US government publications are copyright protected.
After 1971, the USPS was formed, and as it was no longer a government agency, the stamps since are covered by relevant copyright protections.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,548
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Nov 2, 2020 19:19:09 GMT
And of course USPS got into deep hot water over the use of someone else’s image of the head of Liberty on a definitive stamp .........infringement of copyright was it not ? $3,000,000 damages to the sculptor was the result. so if sherro sells t-shirts with that US Forever stamp he is deep in Kangaroo poo! |
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renden
Member
Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Nov 2, 2020 19:49:38 GMT
Our members have started a healthy discussion, so let's get it on ZOOM !!
René
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Post by daniel on Nov 2, 2020 20:45:08 GMT
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Philatarium
Member
Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 1,032
What I collect: Primarily focused on Japan, but lots of other material catches my eye as well ...
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Post by Philatarium on Nov 2, 2020 21:51:39 GMT
Our members have started a healthy discussion, so let's get it on ZOOM !! I would propose for this topic, and most others, it would be better to keep it here on the discussion board, where it can be a more effective source of information to a wider group of readers, and for an indefinite period of time, rather than for an appointment-based, one-time only, limited audience of those both with the technology and the schedule availability to participate in a time-specific Zoom discussion. (I've been thinking about this for a while, and have been getting a little concerned that too much content for this board is going to Zoom. Just my 2-cents' worth, but it's not a knee-jerk reaction and it's with a heartfelt concern for this board.) |
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bcuddy
Member
Inactive
Posts: 123
What I collect: United States, famous people
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Post by bcuddy on Nov 2, 2020 21:54:59 GMT
Interesting conversation. I'm going to need to do some more research on this. I was just thinking over the weekend that it would be cool to have a painting or poster of a stamp on my wall. I found one that I like. I can't imagine there would be a copyright issue on this one.  |
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Post by daniel on Nov 2, 2020 22:13:56 GMT
And of course USPS got into deep hot water over the use of someone else’s image of the head of Liberty on a definitive stamp ....... infringement of copyright was it not ? $3,000,000 damages to the sculptor was the result. Yes, it turned out to be a picture of the Statue of Liberty in Las Vegas!!! Robert S Davidson, the sculptor, successfully sued for copyright infringement. |
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,197
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Nov 2, 2020 23:21:47 GMT
At one time I had considered creating my own postcards using used US stamps scanned or photographed either as a collage or individual stamps. I no longer remember where on the website but I went to the USPS website and was able to make the request to use used postage stamps as images and a couple of weeks later I received a letter in the mail granting me that permission. It was surprisingly easy and they seemed to have no compunctions about granting it. The one caveat to that is that I told them I would not and they stated that I could not sell the postcards, they were only for personal use. Unfortunately I never followed through and made the postcards. I was thinking about spending more time doing Postcrossing at the time.
After that I realized it wasn't that difficult to simply ask before using other's copyrighted material. I am not sure how feasible it would be, however, to ask each country's postal authority every time I posted images from the stamps on my desk or the kiloware I have been sorting through. I realize it was said that this is probably ok, but I am still curious as to what is legal vs. not.
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Ryan
Moderator
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,749
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Nov 2, 2020 23:33:33 GMT
One of my bucket list tasks is to write some software to take an image of a scanned engraved stamp and turn that into computer-controlled milling machine code, using that to then create giant engraved "stamps". Such software already exists but is occasionally outrageously expensive (my Dad's software package for his milling machine costs roughly $10,000) and in any case I think it would be a fun programming project. Anyway, attached to that is a conscious need to be careful about copyrights and how they apply to stamps. Here in Canada, the rough explanation is that anything more than 50 years old is in the public domain, but that will clearly have limits even if they aren't easily found on that Wikipedia page. For example, soon to come into "more or less public domain" are the Canadian stamps of the mid-'70s, many of which were issued for the 1976 Olympics in Montreal. Clearly I'm not going to be able to co-opt the logos owned by the IOC and COJO (I think that was the acronym for the Montreal games organizing committee), even though they will soon be found on stamps that are 50+ years old. Still, the list on Wikipedia (which I've had bookmarked already for many years!) is a good starting point for me when targeting stamps I'd like to turn into big pieces of aluminum wall art. First target - the 1953 polar bear stamp, I love that design ....  And note that as far as I know, the date for US stamp copyright protection is 1978, not 1971 - I hope that's correct, that way I can use the image of Einstein on the 8 cent definitive from the Famous Americans series (the 15 cent large-format commemorative is off limits, unfortunately ...). Ryan |
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Post by dgdecker on Nov 3, 2020 0:14:45 GMT
Very interesting post. I knew most countries had copyrighted protections on stamps. Just was not aware of the details. I can only imagine how they vary from country to country.
will have a look at the Wikipedia page and bookmark it.
David
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Post by dgdecker on Nov 3, 2020 0:19:17 GMT
Welcome to the Forum, Charles.
David
Ottawa, Canada
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Post by mdroth on Nov 3, 2020 0:58:55 GMT
Hello Charles - welcome aboard!
Very interested to see your posts/images - fun topics.
Can't talk about Scotland/UK laws. In the US, Amos Publishing (Scott) has successfully defended its copyright - in court - on many occasions. While we can disagree with it philosophically/philatelic-ally (!?), it is a long ago decided issue of US copyright law...
The other thread on copyrights is equally interesting, but also similarly long-established precedent. Anything pre-1971 is public domain. Use anything afterwards at your own peril!!
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gmot
Member
Posts: 205
What I collect: Canada & French Morocco
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Post by gmot on Nov 3, 2020 1:22:15 GMT
That French Eq. Africa set from 1946 is indeed a beauty - I would say given it is 74 years old, you're in the clear...
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charleso
**Member**
Inactive
UK stamp price goes up to 85 pence in January 2021. How does that compare to other countries?
Posts: 22
What I collect: chess, patent thematics
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Post by charleso on Nov 3, 2020 11:04:38 GMT
I'd be interested in seeing details of cases involving Scott catalogue. Did these cases cover protection of individual Scott numbers, or portions from the catalogue? Feist v Rural Telephone (US Supreme Court 1991) established that facts without a minimum of creativity do not enjoy copyright. I note the fact that US stamps prior to 1971 are public domain. In most countries, however, stamp images are not public domain, but can be so old that they are now out of copyright. By "so old" I mean 19th century. Anything more recent is likely to be in copyright.
My view on copyright is that it is less to do with the law than with the management of risk. Lots of things might be infringement, but the risk is so low as to not be a problem.
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charleso
**Member**
Inactive
UK stamp price goes up to 85 pence in January 2021. How does that compare to other countries?
Posts: 22
What I collect: chess, patent thematics
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Post by charleso on Nov 3, 2020 11:09:09 GMT
That French Eq. Africa set from 1946 is indeed a beauty - I would say given it is 74 years old, you're in the clear... The fact that it is 74 years old is no help, as copyright in the image probably lasts last for 70 years after the death of the person who designed it. But creating your own poster (not for sale) from it is very low risk. |
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,697
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 3, 2020 11:53:58 GMT
In the USPS case, there was a sense of karma since the USPS spent a lot of energy on copyright protection and licensing for their products and then tried to argue it did not matter when they used someone else's product.
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angore
Member
Posts: 5,697
What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Nov 3, 2020 12:07:47 GMT
The last case with Scott numbers was with Krause publications that published a cross reference between Minkus and Scott numbers. It was eventually settled out of court with allowing Krause to publish the cross reference as a separate document. From comments made later. Scott was reportedly required to be more uniform in licensing. Some claimed it was a defeat for Scott but nothing has changed in my opinion. Amos Media (owner of Scott) eventually bought Minkus brand from Krause supposedly for the albums.
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dorincard
Member
Posts: 1,622
What I collect: My focus is on Wild Mammals on maximum cards. Occasionally, I get or create maximum cards with other animals, or any other topic.
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Post by dorincard on Nov 5, 2020 0:18:47 GMT
No, gatodiablo. Not 1971, but 1978. "Copyrighted by the United States Postal Service after 1 January 1978 (the date on which the Copyright Act of 1976 went into effect).[25] Written permission is needed[26]." In the US, stamps printed before 1971 are not protected by copyright law, as they were produced by the US government - no US government publications are copyright protected. After 1971, the USPS was formed, and as it was no longer a government agency, the stamps since are covered by relevant copyright protections. |
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gmot
Member
Posts: 205
What I collect: Canada & French Morocco
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Post by gmot on Nov 5, 2020 0:34:22 GMT
That French Eq. Africa set from 1946 is indeed a beauty - I would say given it is 74 years old, you're in the clear... The fact that it is 74 years old is no help, as copyright in the image probably lasts last for 70 years after the death of the person who designed it. But creating your own poster (not for sale) from it is very low risk. French copyright law is 70 years after death yes. But copies for personal use are allowed. |
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gatodiablo
Member
Posts: 456
What I collect: Places I've been, and places I want to go.
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Post by gatodiablo on Nov 5, 2020 2:18:40 GMT
No, gatodiablo. Not 1971, but 1978. "Copyrighted by the United States Postal Service after 1 January 1978 (the date on which the Copyright Act of 1976 went into effect).[25] Written permission is needed[26]." There seems to be a gray area (grey for those across the pond), for the period when the USPS was spun off and no longer a government agency with works immediately entering the public domain, and the act of 1976. It seems the USPS could have registered works for copyright in that period. But since I am not a copyright lawyer, I'll just leave it at that and step away. www.copyright.gov/history/lore/pdfs/201403%20CLore_March2014.pdf |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,908
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
Member is Online
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Nov 5, 2020 7:22:51 GMT
Thanks for the discussion, all. I had a feeling this topic would spark some responses or even debate. Well, gatodiablo, although you are not a copyright lawyer, I think that charleso is, so perhaps he can comment about this. Charles, what is your opinion about the USPS copyright situation? Can you comment on 1971 versus 1978 dates? Many thanks! |
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to TSF.
Yes, I own, or have owned each stamp shown, which is why I claim copyright on the images. I use hi-res scans, and sell quite a few as t-shirts, so the quality is pretty good.
