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Post by katie333 on Jan 9, 2021 23:26:29 GMT
Hi everyone,
I think we've all seen the dreaded pen/marker cancellations enough in recent years to become very frustrated by their ruining of otherwise nice stamps. Canada seems to be bad with this though I've seen examples from multiple countries.
I realize that pen cancels are technically not supposed to be done, but it seems most postal administrations give only lip service to addressing this issue. I also know that not everyone that works in sorting centres, postal outlets and other places often care/realize the impact this has.
Anyway, I've been giving some thought to getting a rubber stamp made up and effective cancelling my own envelopes before I drop them in the box. I can't find any rules/legalities of this, but honestly, if a pen is somehow acceptable, then surely a pseudo-cancellation stamp wouldn't be objectionable. In fact, I'd be helping them out since I still receive (and suspect for items I've sent) items that are also completely uncancelled.
Interested in everyone's thoughts.
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WERT
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What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Jan 9, 2021 23:40:31 GMT
Know what you mean.. Robert  |
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dorincard
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What I collect: My focus is on Wild Mammals on maximum cards. Occasionally, I get or create maximum cards with other animals, or any other topic.
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Post by dorincard on Jan 10, 2021 3:52:18 GMT
Katie, I know your point, but it's not legal for you.
It is for me, though, for USA stamps.
Canada Post can allege that you reused pen-canceled stamps. Or stamps previously canceled by a private fantasy "postmark".
I can do it because I have MPP (Mailer's Postmark Permit).
See USPS Form 3615.
Even a non-US citizen like you can get one, for USA stamps, just like Derwin Mak (Canada) got one.
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khj
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Post by khj on Jan 10, 2021 4:54:49 GMT
For the US, a couple examples of MPP mentioned by dorincard :  Zip Code 19014, MPP 42, Case Western Reserve University A pic pilfered from darkormex  Library of America, Mailer's Postmark Permit 1, Zip Code 22701 And this one pilfered from dorincard  |
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tregeor
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Post by tregeor on Jan 10, 2021 11:38:58 GMT
I live in the UK and I'm going to guess it would be against the law to do it here! I would love for someone to prove me wrong though 'cos I think it's a brilliant idea!
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philatelia
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What I collect: Ireland, Japan, Scandy, USA, Venezuela, Vatican, Bermuda, Austria
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Post by philatelia on Jan 10, 2021 11:58:39 GMT
Katie you can do that, you just need to get a permit. I had one when I lived in Michigan and it was a lot of fun. I should apply for a new permit for my new address. There are several rules for using MMPs - Mailer's Postmark Permit - such as you can't just toss them in a mailbox. You must hand them to the clerk. You can only use them on mail - you can't cancel things just to create philatelic oddities. And there are more rules, but most are common sense. All the information that you need to do this can be found on the Mailer Postmark Permit club --- brb with the link www.shaulisstamps.com/mppc/something is hinkie with that link - not sure what's up |
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Jan 10, 2021 12:25:36 GMT
Kate ( katie333), thanks for an interesting thread topic. It's addressing an area that has certainly been mentioned by many of us. In fact, on the subject of the "dreaded pen/ marker cancellations", there is already a thread on the subject of the so-called "Marker Monkeys" here: thestampforum.boards.net/thread/500/marker-monkeys?page=1And as Robert ( WERT) has shown with his post (thank you, Robert!), pen cancels have been happening since the 19th Century, so it's been going on for a long time. Anyway, I share your frustration in this area, especially now that I have learned to appreciate postmarks much more than I ever did before (thanks in particular to members such as blaamand, tobben63, and barbu). My solution is a simple one, but it means that you can't just drop mail in the box, as it were, you would need to go into the post office. I cannot say for sure how it is in Canada, but in the US, France, and UK, if you take your carefully franked envelopes into the post office and seek out the services of a postal clerk, you can ask them to hand cancel the stamps, thus ensuring that everything is postmarked. In the US, it also means that the hand-cancelled items do not go through the cancelling machines, which is an added benefit, as those machines tend to damage the older, non-self-adhesive stamps on a regular basis. If going to the PO yourself is either not desirable or possible for you, then I am unsure what else to suggest. Hope this may help a little.  |
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Jan 10, 2021 14:29:12 GMT
I have had letters hand cancelled at the local post office. But they still get the spray-on cancel applied by machine in Toronto. You might be able to make your own cancel, but if it goers to a central processing plant, it may get their cancel as well for no other reason than it is a piece of mail & machines don't know about your cancel.
But it would be interesting to see if we here in Canada can make our own cancel!
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philatelia
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Post by philatelia on Jan 10, 2021 14:49:04 GMT
Ooops! Sorry, Katie, katie333, I forgot that you are in Canada. Those MPPs are USA only. Sheesh - that's me in the morning before the Java kicks in. |
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Post by katie333 on Jan 10, 2021 15:05:17 GMT
Thanks everyone for your messages! I will still look into the US meter given there is another Canadian that uses it. Derwin is speaking at an RPSC event soon so I may ask him that question virtually.
Because we are in lockdown, I am trying to stay home and not go into a post office. Our local post office is also open very limited hours and with my work schedule I cannot go there even if I wanted to. We also have franchise locations but again, trying to avoid going into public places as much as possible. I find the postal clerks also get rather grumpy when I have asked in the past.
Years ago I lived in another city and there was a small town that had a round cancel, they got to know me, and they thought what I did was very neat. They would see me coming and get the cancel and the pad ready to go, and I'd sit off the side and cancel all my own stuff. They liked to look at all the covers before they put them in the bin.
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hrdoktorx
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Post by hrdoktorx on Jun 29, 2022 5:58:25 GMT
Reviving an old thread since these are related news. I've shown in a previous post how it's now possible in the Netherlands to simply write a code on your envelope where your stamp would have been instead of putting an actual postage label. I just heard on the news that France will also introduce this system, starting next year. Same idea, you get a code from the La Poste website and write it on the envelope. For now, this will only be possible for the domestic "green" rate (below 20g, two-day delivery within France). Traditional stamps can still be used, of course. |
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Post by carabop on Jul 1, 2022 2:37:27 GMT
when I went into the post office the other day the clerk told me they are not supposed to hand cancel mail any more. Has anyone else in the US heard this? She did cancel my envelope and said something about she wouldn’t get fired or anything she just wasn’t supposed to do it.
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tobben63
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Post by tobben63 on Jul 1, 2022 4:14:53 GMT
In Norway we don't have post office any longer!! We have something that is called 'Post i butikk (after this called PIB)'. That means you can deliver letters and packages in PIB and get packages out there. A PIB could be in a grocery store and is open and served by the personell in the grocery store as long as the store is open. But they have no date cancel. But, there is always a but  . A PIB can order a special cancel with the possibility to change the date. I know of one PIB who has this cancel in my area. But it is a bit out of my normal drive. I have been there some year ago and got my outgoing post cancelled, but they had to do a search operation to find the cancel. But they did find it and I was aloud to cancel the letters myself. I have some stuff cancelled in that PIB, but have to find it, will make another tread for this. Conclusion: In Norway you cant meet up on the post office and get a cancel on envelopes delivered to you witch are not cancelled. There are no post offices and the PIB don't have a cancel. |
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swvl
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Post by swvl on Jul 1, 2022 13:50:26 GMT
I’ve had clerks at a couple of big-city post offices look at me like I’ve taken leave of my senses when I request a hand-cancel, and at least once I’ve been told directly they don’t do that anymore. I’ve had better luck at smaller branches. I don’t know of any change in rules, but that would explain a lot!
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Post by nbstamper on Jul 16, 2022 12:25:24 GMT
At our local post offices (we have two in our community - Rothesay-Quispamsis, N.B.), the clerks are happy to let you hand cancel envelopes and they try to separate the envelopes so they avoid the cancelling machines at the central sorting office. Doesn't always work, so some items arrive with double cancellations. However, works great on oversized or registered letters.
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. A PIB can order a special cancel with the possibility to change the date. I know of one PIB who has this cancel in my area. But it is a bit out of my normal drive. I have been there some year ago and got my outgoing post cancelled, but they had to do a search operation to find the cancel. But they did find it and I was aloud to cancel the letters myself. 
