Queensland: Need some help identifying this Chalon

I must state  I do not have knowledge in depth of the early Australian Issues,  so my comments are just speculation !


From a first look , My instinctive reaction was "why worry? it is in such poor state and the colour is obviously faded, probably a changeling anyway.     " I confess I would have binned it without further consideration

but then Mr. H has legitimate concerns, It is perf 13 and it is not watermark 4 which is the only green 3d issue......................Hmm ?


So is the perf wrong?   Check the bottom to confirm is it 13 all round .

Is the watermark wrong?  a)  Did the print run include a left over sheet of the Wmk 3  Paper by mistake? or b) was there a damaged brass "bit" in the watermark frame which had to be replaced and one rather wonky star type 3 was soldered in? 

If this is the case surely after 150 years someone must have spotted another example?



I wait to see if an Australia collector has an explanation. 

Agree it could be the 1868/74 print runs    but  Wmk 3 and Wmk 4 are  different shaped stars.      It might be a damaged star 4, but it certainly looks Wmk3

Nothing about this is found in the Brusden-White (ACSC) or Michel catalogues either. I thought I might find something when trawling through ancient catalogues on my bookshelf but many of these older books don't include any listing at all for any greenish / olive type of shade on a 3d Chalon (for example, there's no listing for any green or olive 3d Chalons in the 1894 Scott). The only tiny hint I found was in a 1931 Senf Brothers catalogue - there's a note which says (my translation) "the greenish shade which often occurs on #28b [this is the olive-green perf. 13 with #4 truncated star watermark] is based on a process of decomposition". Still, wrong watermark ...

I found a Spink catalogue for a specialized Queensland collection and didn't see anything like what you have. Maybe more snooping through old auction catalogues won't do much good - you would think that if it had popped up in a sale at some point, then a catalogue would have listed it at some point. A mystery!

Ryan

I have never studied Queenslands stamps before ( I have so few!) but this is looking like a mystery around watermarks!

Here are the 3 'Star' watermarks in question - from SG :



And the one on Mr.H's example Vs W4:




There is a definite difference between the two types, as can be seen.

Mr.H's copy looks to be an exact match for SG 65 except - that it should be W4 ! Plausible that some W4's were very similar to W3 - see this ebay lot :

Ebay UK - Truncated Stars selection







In regard to the postmark on the stamp '40' I have found this site that explains the Post Office behind the postmark :

queenslandstampnumerals.blogspot.com/2012/11/40-dalrymple.html

40 - Burdekin / Dalrymple

Burdekin post office, 50 km north west of Charters Towers, was opened on 1 April 1864. It was renamed Dalrymple in 1868 and closed on 21 December 1887

Chalon Ray Type 1 c (6 mm) (18 Rays) is rated Rare

Sideface Ray Type 1 c (6 mm) (18 Rays) is rated Rare

Burdekin date stamp type 2 HERE. Burdekin registered HERE

Dalrymple date stamp type 1b HERE. Dalrymple registered HERE


Re Allocation:

Unknown post office, known on an 1892, 1895 and an 1898 sideface issue and also a Commonwealth issue, both issued after the Dalrymple post office closed

Sideface Ray Type 1 c (6 mm) (18 Rays) is rated 4R

Commonwealth Ray Type 1 c (6 mm) (18 Rays) is rated 5R

Dave

Try this on for size:

Thank you very much for all the efforts put into sorting this out. The help is much appreciated.

Indeed Alex. Well done :-)

I must wonder therefore why the catalog editors have not created an entry for this in their catalogs.

SG65var 3d Olive Green
W3 watermark instead of W4

Dave

And now that I know what I'm looking for, I do see a note in Robson Lowe's Encyclopedia under the varieties of the 1868-74 issue that in at least two positions on the sheet, we have the small star watermark, and a se-tenant pair is recorded.

The sheet is 240 positions, 12x20. Not all of those positions will have stars; some will have part of QUEENSLAND.

Happy hunting.

I'll be back in the same room with my newest SG Commonwealth tomorrow, but I know that in the past, their editorial policy regarding the watermarks of Australian states was something along the lines of, "we think that the printers of these stamps just stuck the paper in the press any which way, so we don't track varieties." Which always struck me as doublespeak for, "we lack data."

Thanks again to Mr. H , Dave (DK ), Collin (cjd ), Alex (vikingeck ), Werner (salentin ) and Ryan for your contributions to this thread.

I searched my holdings here in Oxford for Queensland issues.  I could only find one Chalon Head here, but it is potentially interesting to this story.  Sorry it took a couple of days to prepare this, as the stamp needed soaking to remove multiple hinge remnants, then pressed flat, now scanned front and back, with a little enhancement added:


Queensland, SG60 or 61, 2-Pence Blue or Pale Blue with SG Wmk 4 showing "D" of QUEENSLAND and truncated star.

Opinions are welcome, of course.  Does it look like I am seeing the watermark correctly?

Hello again DK Dave,

Your info on those 2 New Zealands was spot on. No cross showed up after watermarking.

I have a new challenge for you.


Here are #1 & #2 1860 Queensland

No problem seeing the large star watermark on both.

My question is condition.

The 2p blue looks new, do not see a cancellation, but there is some small dirt in a few random spots.


Could that tiny dirt be a cancellation?


Let's hope not!

Alan

DK Dave,

I'm still learning how to navigate around these boards & I see you've been able to move my latest thread over to a Queensland Q & A thread.

THANKS AGAIN ! MUCH APPRECIATED !

There were some fascinating reads on the other thread about Philip getting a NZ 1p SG1 certified.  X-rays, special equipment + chemical testing? WOW!  Somebody dug deep and hit gold.

I can now see that I'm in the right place to have all you experts chime in to get any answer to my questions.

Carry on with all your great work. 

The only thing I can add to this forum is to provide everybody with new material for viewing & discussion.


Alan

Queensland stamps are best viewed (and more easily found in searches) on the Queensland board.