stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 20, 2021 22:33:59 GMT
I do not see anything specific, so a new thread (Admin- if there is a place for this elsewhere please move!) I received a small lot for vikingeck today, and below are only some of the stamps, but these I have measured perforations, and from what info I can find: (which may not be completely accurate... or for that matter may be completely off....)_ Top row perfs vary from 13.75 - 13.90 x 14.16-25 all reprints? Row 2- perfs are very consistent, but I cannot find a reference to this perf (13.75 x 14.5)so for now, I am assuming this are also may also be reprints Bottom row 14 x 14 Hamburg reprints and the lone 14 x 14.5.... again no idea, but original issues were 13.5 x 14.25... so close but no cigars  I do hope the English translated Michel specialized includes these (once it finally arrives!) |
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mikeclevenger
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What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on May 21, 2021 11:02:19 GMT
I do hope the English translated Michel specialized includes these (once it finally arrives!) Boy, are you going to be disappointed! There are no German Colonies in the English version. Yes, I said NO German Colonies. I was very disappointed in this, as I collect all the colonies.
I wish I knew you wanted an English version of this, as I bought 2 on accident, and have a brand new, still shrink wrapped English Version. I forgot to ship it back to Amazon until it was too late to return it, so I am out a good bit of money, for a book that just lays around like an unemployed slacker. LOL.
Have a great day.
Mike.
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on May 21, 2021 13:58:25 GMT
well hell, that is disappointing!  |
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gmot
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What I collect: Canada & French Morocco
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Post by gmot on May 21, 2021 23:58:08 GMT
My Michel Germany specialized contains all the foreign post offices & colonies (the 2016 edition, vol. 1). Are you perhaps referring to a different edition?
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on May 22, 2021 2:33:24 GMT
Yup, the brand spanking New Michel German Reich catalogue in English! What a novelty! It suits me just fine!
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mikeclevenger
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What I collect: Ohio Tax Stamps, Ohio & Georgia Revenues, US Revenues, US FDC's, & Germany Classics
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Post by mikeclevenger on May 22, 2021 9:26:58 GMT
My Michel Germany specialized contains all the foreign post offices & colonies (the 2016 edition, vol. 1). Are you perhaps referring to a different edition? Yes, we are talking about the English version. The German version has everything in it. The English version is missing so much information, and it doesn't tell you that in the descriptions before you buy it. I bought mine about a year ago. Here is what is in the English Version.  |
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gmot
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Post by gmot on May 22, 2021 11:03:39 GMT
Got it, that's the same edition I have. Yes, I do wish it had the plebiscites in particular. And the German States. It does have the German colonies however, so I was confused by your comment that those weren't in there.
~Greg
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salentin
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Post by salentin on Jul 11, 2023 13:52:51 GMT
Would not know how to do that,but perhaps somebody could correct the name of subject: the german Helgoland is called in English Heligoland.(one "o" less)
Being no prolific buyer of stamps (any more),I just look for additions to my worldwide collection of classical stamps. (My cut is around 1870) Just received my first Heligoland stamps:
Issued in April 1867,both are very affordable in mint condition,even if expertised. Many reprints and forgeries exist.
The face value in Schilling was not in british currency,but in Hamburg Mark Courant. 1 Mark was made up by 16 Schilling.1 Schilling was equal approximately 1 Penny british currency.
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Post by gstamps on Jul 14, 2023 11:41:10 GMT
I recently received my first Heligoland stamps. I understood that the site of "fritzwagner" is very useful in identifying these stamps. Is it still functional? I did not make it. I start with this stamp: Mi 17- coat of arms. It has a perforation in line L14 - so the original stamp is excluded which has a combined perforation K 13.5 x 14.25. What is it? reprint or forgery? The postal cancellation seems fake to me: - the year is not written - Abbreviation JY for the month - cannot appear for January or July which do not have the letter Y in German.   |
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salentin
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Post by salentin on Jul 14, 2023 12:13:10 GMT
Far from being an expert for Heligoland: the cancel looks to me as from the British Post Office on Heligoland.
As a general note in Michel printed prominently in bold-print:
Alle Marken von Helgoland sollten nur geprüft erworben werden !
(all stamps from Heligoland should be purchased only if expertised)
I think this is especially important,where cancelled stamps are much more expensive than unused ones ! Here the rate is more than 10-20 times,depending on the colour.
But anyway line-perforation does not look good for to be genuine stamp.
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 14, 2023 14:16:04 GMT
If perforationis 14 is could well be a Hamburg reprint
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Post by gstamps on Jul 14, 2023 16:15:48 GMT
Hi Thank you salentin and stainlessb I will look for the postal cancellation if it is on the list of known forgeries. (I found it in Michel - I did not know that there was also an English post office) I am very interested in a site that describes the differences between Berlin, Leipzig and Hamburg reprints (paper type, perforation, gum and less colors - where I am zero in identification) I started with this stamp because the type and color of the paper is very different from my other Helgoland stamps. I found on a website the statement that the original stamps were printed on "quadrille paper" What is it? does anyone have something like this? salentin - your two stamps (at least what I see from their front side) seem to me to be on normal paper. Is there anything special on their backs? At the price of 0.2 Euro per stamp, I allowed myself the risk of having only a reprint/forgery - it's a study lot that a German collector from another forum website gave me as a "gift" |
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stainlessb
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Posts: 4,903
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 14, 2023 17:08:54 GMT
gstamps I am not sure if all "quadrille" paper is the same, but France Yvert # 101 (Sage 15c blue Typee II) were on quadri9lle paper, which sometimes is quite easy to to spot and oter times not so much or only when the stamp is wet. Maybe this will help. I have not found much information online (and I have since sent all my Heligoland stamps to another forum member.
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Jul 14, 2023 18:52:24 GMT
There does seem to be some confusion in this thread. It is contained within the subsection German States. However, under the Treaty Of Paris 1814 the island was formerly annexed by Great Britain and remained so until 1890. That's Queen Victoria depicted on the stamps. The 1867/1869 issues were denominated in Hamburg schillings and the 1875 issue in British sterling and gold marks. There is also a Helgoland thread here. Perhaps they should be combined? Note that the stamps are listed in Stanley Gibbons Commonwealth & British Empire Stamp Daniel |
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Post by gstamps on Jul 14, 2023 19:35:43 GMT
stainlessb - I don't think it's the paper of the French stamp (I can't find the stamp but from what I can remember "le quadrilage" can also be seen on the face of the stamp) daniel - I didn't study the history of the island (I knew it was populated mostly by Germans), I was very eager to find out information about stamps and it seems I was wrong. Thanks for the brief history. I did not find a website address with information about reprints in the other thread either.
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Jul 14, 2023 20:52:31 GMT
@gstamp I did find THIS indicating the quadrille pattern is created by wires in the paper mold... which sounds a lot like how a watermark is applied but I see some description of "...quadrille paper, unwatermarked..." ". but they do not reference the France Sage issue. The references I have say very little about "grid paper" , beyond name and the image of the back (much like most other very brief discussions of paper types ) perhaps it is simply a 'laid paper" |
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Post by gstamps on Jul 15, 2023 12:58:06 GMT
Hi stainlessbThank you, it's really laid paper. I received confirmation on the "stampsx" website that the German terms "gegittertes" or "gestreiftes papier" refer to "laid paper" George |
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salentin
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Post by salentin on Jul 15, 2023 14:42:41 GMT
gstamps,it took me a while to scan the backs:2 Sch. right,6 Sch.left.
I just had a look at the Michel box about the private reprints of Helgoland. There they mention,under first Goldner reprints,that no.17 (your stamp) was not printed on "maschigen" (meshed) paper.
To me that term nicely describes however the paper of your stamp. "Gestreiftes" (laid) paper looks quite different,more like a watermark. The only I can recall from the countries I collect,are those from (south-) Korea issued in 1955/56.But if I remember it correctly there are more laid paper stamps from Russia and around. Here pictures for Korea:
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Post by gstamps on Jul 15, 2023 16:24:43 GMT
Hi salentinThanks for the info. Being my first Heligoland stamps, I quickly looked for information on websites in English (more accessible to me than German). The information obtained is confusing, I think I shouldn't have published it on TSF, because I think you didn't understand me very well. I returned to Michel and to the German website "stampsx". I reached some conclusions (to be corrected if necessary - translations from German are difficult): 1. Michel 1-4 are on normal paper (which is what your 2 stamps also show) 2. Michel 6-7 on "paper without structure" or laid paper 3. Michel 8-10 on laid paper. My Mi 17 stamp has nothing to do with these types of paper and I received a reply from the "stampsx" site that it is a Hamburg reprint type B. Also from this site I have translated the characteristic elements of this type B reprint " What applies to the HND-B (Hamburg reprint B): 1. coarse, thicker paper 2. deviating, narrower perforation 14 vertical 3. bright light yellow 4. Red in UV light like originals 5. Paper matt gray in UV light 6. unadulterated paper in daylight brownish-yellow as if yellowed 7. Missing pieces of paper because of Goldner's stamp packet " Unfortunately the postal cancellation on my Mi 17 stamp is fake. |
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Post by gstamps on Jul 15, 2023 16:34:17 GMT
From this search on the net I found the site "briefmarken-universum.com" where at Lexikom if you click on the term in German a visual example appears (here gesstreiftes/laid paper):  |
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salentin
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Post by salentin on Jul 17, 2023 15:42:49 GMT
Sorry gstamps,that it took me a while to answer. Helgoland (Michel Spezial)
1-4 normal paper 6-7x "Papier ohne Struktur",meaning plain paper ?
6-7y thick grated paper (gegittert) or "Leinenpapier" (no idea what this means,translated it would be "linen-paper" 8-10 dto. 11-20 no mentioning of the kind of paper
I have to admit,that I do not want to go into the different reprints: too complicated !
Russia: Michel calls the laid-paper issues as "gestreiftes Papier" and not as "geripptes Papier" as in Briefmarken-Universum.
The term "geripptes Papier" I only know from few stamps (2,3,6 Kreuzer) of the 1850 Austria issue on "Handpapier". However I have,apart from the obvious meaning,no real idea what it is about. In Michel it reads (my best translation): "Temporary a vertical ribbing (?) was applied after gumming on Handpapier. (ribs are about 0.3 mm broad) Sometimes these are so prominent,that the cancellations show breaks."
In my understanding quite different from laid paper.
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Post by gstamps on Jul 17, 2023 20:04:22 GMT
salentinI received an answer from the "stampsx" site (I have great confidence in Juergen Kraft's expertise) that "gegittertes"and "gestreiftes" papier is "laid paper" In fact, "briefmarken-universum" shows the same picture with the Russian stamps for both denominations. I don't know where they invented the term "geripptes", but I didn't find it in Michel. I think the term "ribbed" paper refers to the marks that appear on the paper due to the way the gum was deposited or to the exercise of a linear pressure after the stamp was gummed to prevent the curling effect. I have some examples of German and American stamps and tomorrow at daylight I will try to illustrate with some pictures.
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Ryan
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What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Jul 17, 2023 21:29:33 GMT
I think the term "ribbed" paper refers to the marks that appear on the paper due to the way the gum was deposited or to the exercise of a linear pressure after the stamp was gummed to prevent the curling effect. For Canadian stamps, ribbed paper comes from the paper production process rather than anything to do with the gum. There are some Canadian stamps with "gum breakers", bends added to the paper after gumming - I'm thinking specifically of later KGV-era definitives here - and they have long been seen on some American engraved stamps also, but these ridges are much farther apart, perhaps only 4 or 5 ridges in the long dimension of a small definitive, as opposed to the 40 or so ridges seen on ribbed paper. Here's an image nabbed from the sales website belonging to TSF member brixtonchrome, which shows the ribbing very clearly in the margins of this plate block.  Ryan |
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Post by gstamps on Jul 18, 2023 0:39:00 GMT
Ryan, it seems that I misunderstood the term ribbed paper = paper with bumps / ribs in a line which, due to the reflection of light, appear as darker lines. I have two examples US and German :   The Heligoland stamps are on paper without structure (the fibers are placed randomly) or with structure (like laid paper where the fibers are oriented in one direction and with agglomerations on vertical or horizontal lines) To observe this structure, it is recommended to have a strong light behind the stamp. Too bad the posted example is not in your possession to do the same. I have another German stamp where you can see the diagonally oriented structure.  Are you sure that the dark lines are due to the agglomeration of fibers in the paper and not the reflection of light on the linear ribs of the paper?
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salentin
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Post by salentin on Jul 18, 2023 13:53:40 GMT
I think the 5 Cents strip shows no paper-structure,but just how the gum was applied,like these:
About the 2 C. Canada,I don´t know wether it shows the same effect. I have just a few used of them and they look all like ordinary unstructured paper.
I also tried to scan german stamps with riffled gum,but it does not show on the scans. The riffles can also be seen on stamps without gum,unlike the stripes on the above US stamps.
Unfortunately I have none of the Austrian stamps on ribbed paper. The 3 Kreuzer is affordable,the other two are expensive.
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angore
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Post by angore on Jul 19, 2023 10:42:39 GMT
From Linn's Almanac
Heligoland (1867-90)
Stamp-issuing status: inactive; Population: 12,307 (1900 estimate). A strategically located island in the North Sea, Heligoland was ceded to Great Britain by Denmark in 1807. Britain transferred the island to Germany in 1890, in exchange for some German claims in East Africa. Heligoland was the site of a major German naval base, destroyed by the British after World War II. Heligoland was returned to Germany in 1952. Stamps of Hamburg were used in Heligoland from 1859 to 1867, when separate issues came into use. These were among the most attractive of British colonial issues. The plates used in printing Heligoland's stamps passed into private hands after the island's transfer to Germany, and many reprintings were made. Since 1890, German stamps have been used.
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daniel
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Post by daniel on Jul 24, 2023 23:32:42 GMT
Heligoland Stationery These are cut-outs from Heligoland Newspaper Wrappers, 2 farthings/3 pfennig, 3 farthings/5 pfennig and 1½ pence/10 pfennig.  |
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