WERT
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What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Aug 19, 2021 13:44:47 GMT
I thought this may be a good place for collectors to post their stamps with offsets for all to enjoy. Post any stamp from anywhere in the world.
Robert Here is a coupe of mine to start.
Here is a Newfoundland Scott 261 dog stamp circa 1944
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Aug 19, 2021 13:48:40 GMT
Here is one more - Newfoundland Scott 31 circa 1865-1894
Robert
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banknoteguy
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What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Aug 19, 2021 14:24:45 GMT
From the US, Scott 158 3c Green, offset shows part of another stamp and the offsets show paper fold.
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 19, 2021 15:15:38 GMT
That last one is a cracker !!
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Aug 19, 2021 15:16:32 GMT
How about this Scott 37 from Spain... Robert
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 19, 2021 15:26:05 GMT
Very often what seems to be an offset, is just a heavy image showing through a thin paper, I think the Spanish one is just that, since the postmark is also showing through the paper. For an offset there has to be definite ink transferred onto the reverse of the stamp. This happens when a sheet is laid on top of another which is not completely dry, and some lifts off the under sheet. Because of the nature of the ink it is more likely found in intaglio (engraved) printing. I would be more likely convinced of a true offset if the two images didn't line up exactly Two more examples , not as spectacular as that posted by banknoteguy , but they do have ink transfer from another sheet , not directly aligned with the front image  |
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banknoteguy
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What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Aug 19, 2021 15:49:50 GMT
I call it offset but I have seen postings that say the correct term is setoff.
Adding the definition from Fundamentals of Philately, Williams, 1971, page 131:
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stainlessb
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What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 19, 2021 15:54:33 GMT
I call it offset but I have seen postings that say the correct term is setoff. curious if that is from a US reference? Seems we Americans like to do many thinks differently... instead of a base 10 metric system, we adopt a base 12 system (12 inches to 1 foot) for measurement and further complicate things by breaking down inches by 1/64, and a yard is only 3 feet (1 unit of 12....)... this all apparently for the lay person as machinist at least revert to a base 10 system and reference fractions in tenths, hundres, thousands... and now back to your regularly scheduled thread..... |
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 19, 2021 15:58:56 GMT
I call it offset but I have seen postings that say the correct term is setoff. Indeed that is correct .. "OFFSET" is an actual process of printing whereby an image is transferred on to the paper. "SET OFF" is the precise and correct term for what we have here ................it is just that after years of use of the term "offset" ,that is the popular usage, and virtually nobody calls it by its correct term "set off"  Edit stainlessb, Stan, The quote by banknoteguy from L.N.Williams "Fundamentals of Philately" Is an authoritative definition of such Philatelic terms by eminent English ( not American) brother philatelists in the 1940s |
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banknoteguy
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What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Aug 19, 2021 16:14:44 GMT
This is the most spectacular example of setoff I know of -- not mine. Also a Scot 158, similar to the one I posted previously. From Harmer-Schau auction #121 Lot 726:
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banknoteguy
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What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Aug 19, 2021 16:19:00 GMT
When I first ran into this, I was really new to stamps and thought it was printed on both sides but that is an entirely different effect (image is not reversed) and much much rarer.
I would love to see a setoff example in mint with OG. Does such an animal exist? Probably must, but I have not found one yet.
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WERT
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What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Aug 19, 2021 16:24:07 GMT
Was searching the internet about setoff-offset...Seems a lot of sits use offset...Well guess we can use offset, but if some one uses setoff, it is ok.
Robert
Here is another example...Canada Scott 389..
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banknoteguy
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What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Aug 19, 2021 16:32:48 GMT
Wert (Robert) said, I am not sure this is setoff, it looks like ink is just showing through from the printing side rather than being taken up from being stacked on top of a wet sheet below.
With setoff you will typically not see the whole design e.g.,
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 19, 2021 16:45:42 GMT
 Robert, I have to agree with Jack banknoteguy , I don't see your Canada as an Offset /setoff . I think we are just seeing the design through the paper not a transfer on to the back. Jack raises an interesting point about offset on mint stamps . I guess if the paper is gummed after the print run, the offset will be under the gum . However there must be printings done on gummed paper . Any offset would be on top of the gum and would vanish if the stamp was used and the gum removed ! Alex Actually Jack , I have just checked my Sweden 10 ore Luftpost example above . It is hinged mint but with o.g and the offset is under the gum !
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Aug 19, 2021 17:39:50 GMT
OK..On to different topics..
Robert
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Aug 19, 2021 18:03:48 GMT
If it is "set off," would that not imply wet printings. If so, then it would never appear on top of the gum. They would let the stamps dry before applying gum.
Well, that is how my mind works it over!
Peter
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banknoteguy
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What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on Aug 19, 2021 18:49:46 GMT
Sounds right to me. Wet sheets stacked and left to dry and then gummed.
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Aug 20, 2021 0:35:32 GMT
Found this... Robert
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 20, 2021 7:54:44 GMT
So thanks Robert, WERT , that quote shows brightonpete banknoteguy, it is possible to have offset on top of the gum on more recent stamps . Modern techniques with faster drying gum and faster drying inks may make set off/offset less frequent. Almost all, if not all , of the offsets I have found have involved intaglio printing where the ink is thicker when applied and stands slightly proud of the paper surface and is more likely to stick to the reverse of the next sheet. The Sweden example I showed above was printed in rolls , coils , not sheets which is why the offset transfer shows parts of two displaced images rather than a single stamp. |
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chrischross
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Post by chrischross on Aug 20, 2021 16:41:04 GMT
I call it offset but I have seen postings that say the correct term is setoff. Interesting -- I too am having trouble with the term "offset" as that makes me think of "offset lithography", which has nothing to do with "setoff". Pardon the interruption, please carry on  |
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Robert, I have to agree with Jack 
