gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 22, 2021 8:55:57 GMT
I'm currently looking through the stamps I finished organising to see if there are any interesting items that need a closer look and came across this one. King Alfonso VIII, 1889 with printing alignment error. Possibly top row of sheet?
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 22, 2021 9:02:51 GMT
This is undoubtedly a “mis perf” error. The perforation gauge has not been properly aligned to the stamp design so the value tablet at the foot is cut off and would appear attached at the top of the stamp below in the sheet
It is an Interesting error, but someone has cut it off the top of your stamp …….maybe for aesthetic reasons if they didn’t like the extra bit at the top.
It would be more interesting with the missing bit , but we can’t have everything .
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 22, 2021 9:26:50 GMT
OK that makes more sense. 👍
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 22, 2021 14:31:30 GMT
I agree with Alex and will add another possibility that whoever cut the stamp from the envelope cut too close and got a portion of the stamp.... this seems to be the fate of a great many penny red perforated stamps
i describe it as "scissor mutilation". My own grandmother was guiltty of this as I found many stamps she'd cut from envelopes (but never got around to soaking off) that got trimmed a bit too closely
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 22, 2021 20:22:22 GMT
Here I have a 1909 Gibbons # 450 (I believe). I know taking raw photos of the watermark ain't the best, but I do believe the watermark could be mirrored? NZ over a star.
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 22, 2021 20:33:05 GMT
SG shows watermarks as if viewed from the front of the stamp.
Scott shows watermarks as if viewed from the back of the stamp.
The watermark on the your stamp is correct as viewed from the back of the stamp (i.e., mirrored appearance relative to what is shown in SG, but normal relative to what is shown in Scott).
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 22, 2021 20:39:55 GMT
OK lol, did not know that.
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 25, 2021 21:18:01 GMT
Chinese stamps from a recent purchase..
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 25, 2021 21:27:59 GMT
Purchase also contained 68 penny reds.. So far this is the most interesting one. On the back is, Copestake Moore Crampton & co London
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 25, 2021 21:41:13 GMT
Plate looks like it could be 213. The diamond numerical cancel is I believe is London Inland- I'm at work so will need to look up 22 later (unless someone else does it sooner). The stamp suffers a common malady of death by scissors as someone has cut it a bit too close from the envelope... though I suppose it's possible someone cut it from the block/shett rather than tear apart the perfs.... Plate 213 would be one of the near to last issue
I want to know what the other 67 look like!!!
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 25, 2021 22:26:04 GMT
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 26, 2021 0:32:33 GMT
I see a few stamps that look to sound all four sides/perfs! I've purchased o number of job lots/study lots over the last few years ranging from 64 - 72 stamps and typically 15- 20% have serious flaws. Yours looks like the percentage may be a bit higher. I've been pulling the flawed stamps out and dest5ined for 'arts and crafts" rather that keep recirculating, but others find merit in them , so to each their own.
but its the gems in the rough we search for!
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 26, 2021 4:58:51 GMT
They were all pretty curled up when I got them. I'm guessing someone hunting 77 or building a plate? Anyway, the first thing I wanted to do was get them all flat again and see what's there. They are all now back of the book.
I know they're not worth much but these stamps are ~160 years old. Honestly, it still amazes me that such delicate little things have survived this long!
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vikingeck
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Post by vikingeck on Aug 26, 2021 8:47:58 GMT
The curl is irritating and because the original gum was applied thickly often remnants remain causing tension. It will do no harm whatsoever to pick the best , soak and remove any gum on the back and press flat between paper towel or blotting paper with a book or two for weight
The Copestake Moore print on the back is interesting. And despite the clipped perfs is a keeper for the back printing Only a small number of companies printed for security on the back …….soon followed by a large number who punched perforated initials (perfins) to prevent pilfering of office stamps by employees for personal use
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 26, 2021 10:20:54 GMT
They all got a dip last night for that very purpose. What I did notice was that the lighter coloured stamps seemed to have paper that was much 'thinner' than the darker coloured stamps.
I haven't properly sorted through them so i'm guessing it could related to the printing date of each stamp and the paper that was used?
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stainlessb
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Post by stainlessb on Aug 26, 2021 13:58:37 GMT
As Alex mentioned, the gum can be thick and in some cases it may take several soakings to get it all off. a drop of clear dish soap helps.The paper nad ink both si=eem incredibly durable- I have left penny reds in the small soaker (a petri dish for when I only need to soak a few) for up to a week with no ill effects.
sometimes the stamp will roll themselves up, not sure why, but they press/dry flat
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 26, 2021 22:03:56 GMT
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 28, 2021 7:17:34 GMT
Just to reply to my own question, the more I look at the 2 cent washington, the more I'm of the opinion that its missing the 12th perf based on how it's been torn \ cut down the right hand side... 🤔
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 28, 2021 7:49:58 GMT
It's tough to provide an accurate perf measurement based solely on a handheld camera pic due to angular distortion. A scan together with a perforation gauge is needed.
Missing the 12th perf does not affect the measurement. The gauge is not determined by how many perfs you can count on the stamp, but how many perfs there are per 2cm. Getting a perf gauge is suggested, as it would be more accurate than counting.
That being said, I can reasonably provide a fairly accurate guess that your TWO CENT Washington with the Ohio cancel is perf 12 and not perf 11.
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Aug 28, 2021 8:24:20 GMT
OK thanks, I will get one as you suggest. 👍
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 28, 2021 22:29:27 GMT
Beryllium Guy, this common misunderstanding is a direct result of Scott's inconsistent method of sample illustrations. Type 138 is "ONE CENT", the only denomination Type 139 is "TWO CENT", the only denomination Type 140 is "# CENT #", where # is the digit(s) and "CENT" plural as needed. This type applies to all denominations (of course, the dollar value is not CENTS but DOLLAR) Type 139 does come in other perforation varieties, not just perf 12, and this includes perf 11 and perf 8½ coil. Scott #519 is Type 139; however, the stamp posted by gotstamps85 is not perf 11. His stamp is not #519 because the perforation doesn't match, not because it is "TWO CENT" because #519 is "TWO CENT".
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 28, 2021 22:58:46 GMT
Cellphone snippets from relevant parts of catalog (nobody report me )
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Post by daniel on Aug 28, 2021 23:18:03 GMT
Just for additional information, there is also Scott 344 imperforate 2 CENTS Carmine, also Type A139. Scott 519 is stated to be 'the result of an old stock of No. 344 which was returned to the Bureau in 1917 and perforated with the then current gauge 11.' According to Scott Specialized Catalogue. As noted by khj.
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 29, 2021 6:25:09 GMT
Many thanks for your posts, Kim ( khj).... I have removed my earlier post, so as not to contribute to any confusion about identification of this stamp. It would seem that I am the one who is confused!
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 29, 2021 6:35:46 GMT
Beryllium Guy, it's easy to misunderstand on those Washington-Franklins, and as I stated before, quite frankly I blame Scott inconsistency in how they present their illustration types. This Scott-caused confusion has affected many collectors. Scott should have made it Type A138 and A138a for the "ONE CENT" and "1 CENT 1" stamps, respectively, then A139 and A139a for the "TWO CENTS" and "2 CENTS 2" stamps, respectively, and finally A140 for all the 3c denominations and above, which only appear in the format "# CENTS #". I would think that would easily eliminate both the need for the footnote that most people don't notice, and the resulting confusion. But it is unlike Scott to try to reduce confusion...
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Beryllium Guy
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Aug 29, 2021 11:48:37 GMT
Well, thanks for your understanding, Kim ( khj). I always hate it when I post misinformation, whatever the reason. It makes me think back 15-20 years ago, when I was working mainly on US stamps, and I was trying to recall how I kept things straight, and I think I have finally remembered. I think I gave up on using Scott for identifying the stamps, and I relied on a Micarelli guide to keep things straight. Perhaps I should go back to that!
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tomiseksj
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Post by tomiseksj on Aug 29, 2021 13:19:20 GMT
For U.S. issues, I confirm the Scott design number and then proceed to the Identifier of Definitive Issues at the front of the Specialized catalog. Then, it is just a process of elimination to complete the identification.
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khj
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Post by khj on Aug 29, 2021 18:15:54 GMT
The Scott Identifier of Definitive Issues at the beginning of the Scott US Specialized Catalogue is actually quite useful if you rely on Scott catalog numbers. Have to give them credit for putting one together. It's not perfect, but it's good enough.
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gotstamps85
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Post by gotstamps85 on Sept 1, 2021 20:04:15 GMT
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WERT
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Post by WERT on Sept 24, 2021 17:51:57 GMT
Found these in a box downstairs...May have more if i spent a whole day downstairs..haha Robert
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