collectordave
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Post by collectordave on Sept 15, 2021 6:56:50 GMT
Hi all Just about finished the database restructure and starting to add a massive amount of data from jln. It has raised a question. At the moment WSC does not have data on first day covers, it is not something I have collected. I do know there are standard first day covers and commemorative first day covers the question is what to add? My feeling is to add a single entry for FDC for each commemorative set and then add CFDC (commemorative first day cover) if there is evidence of there being one. Would like to get the thoughts of collectors of first day covers please post your opinion here. Regards
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Sept 15, 2021 9:53:35 GMT
I do not know much about FDCs but some collect by cachet maker.
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Sept 15, 2021 10:53:27 GMT
An impossible task I’d say . The list would stretch to infinity.
Just looking at recent GB first day covers, you have the generic Bureau issue also available with one or sometimes several different illustrated cancels, then you have various commercial companies with a variety of cachets appropriate to a design element on the stamps …that can add quite a number of variants . So for one issue of stamps you can have a dozen different FDCs.
There are fewer commercial FDc producers in GB now than in the past , but back in the 1950-1970s era the number of producers was much greater and in countries like US or Australia there are very large numbers of commercial and semi-private producers . Hard enough to list for one country let alone go WW.
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Sept 15, 2021 11:17:04 GMT
My comment was allowing a blank field for cachet maker and other attributes.
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clivel
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What I collect: Basutoland, Bechuanaland, Rhodesias, South Africa, Swaziland, Israel to 1980, Ireland predecimal, Palestine Mandate
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Post by clivel on Sept 15, 2021 17:35:47 GMT
Great to hear that you are making progress with more data CD, World Collector promises to be a valuable resource in the future. Clive
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collectordave
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Post by collectordave on Sept 16, 2021 4:26:57 GMT
Hi all
Thanks for the comments. Not as simple as a first glance may suggest.
I am thinking that World Collector should be limited to a single first day cover entry for each commemorative set thereby not bloating the database.
I feel that a start could be made on listing first day covers by having a collaborative database so all collectors could add to it and benefit from other collectors entries.
That may take some time but if a start is not made then it is impossible to reach the end.
CD
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Jerry B
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Post by Jerry B on Sept 16, 2021 9:52:17 GMT
Hi collectordave
A single stamp may have multiple FDC's, each created by a different cachet maker. Therefore a single entry may not be sufficient for an FDC collector. Also collected are First Day of Issue, a cover that may or may not have a cachet, but issued on the day of release of a stamp.
In my area, Colombia, there may be a First Day of Issue in a department (state) and a cachet First Day Cover issued for the same stamp by the postal service. An example where a single entry may not be sufficient.
Just some thoughts.
Jerry B
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Sept 16, 2021 11:06:23 GMT
From the response, it sounds like the database structure is not flexible to handle multiple FDC's. For example, I use StampManage and there is a "Format" field with a second tab to add details. The format field has many options (single, block, covers, etc.)
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Sept 16, 2021 12:26:05 GMT
Those FDC's could also be single stamps, series of stamps, various blocks of 4 with Zippie, plate numbers etc etc etc. The numbers are endless when it comes to FDC's! If you are going to add them, perhaps just a check mark to say you have at least one?
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collectordave
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Post by collectordave on Sept 16, 2021 13:14:16 GMT
Hi All
As I see it any single stamp can have multiple FDCs, or any series can have multiple FDCs.
The world collector database app is a populated database which does not allow users to enter their own stamp data unlike some where you have to enter all your own data, or download portions.
The structure is flexible enough so that it could have a million entries for each stamp to accommodate FDCs however I wish to stop the database becoming bloated and to keep the database consistent across all users.
The single FDC entry is just to show you have one and as I mentioned this can link to a collaborative database for FDCs where collectors can add their own data and share this with other FDC collectors.
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jln
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What I collect: Portugal and former Portuguese colonies (until 1975). I'm starting with the collection of locally issued stamps or occupation stamps (like WWII).
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Post by jln on Sept 23, 2021 13:57:29 GMT
Hi cd,
Your database have stamps, included in Series, issued by the Country Post Office. I think this is the primary goal.
In my opinion it should, also, have FDCs issued by the Country Post Office.
As mentioned before, there are many private issuers of FDC, companies or others that should not be part of the DB. In other words, for me, your DB should be able to allow, by Serie, all items issued by the Country Post Office, related to that Serie. It can be more than one stamp, one FDC, one Maxi card, one Souvenir sheet, one Mini sheet, etc, etc.
As you know my DB has this type of information.
These posts are about FDC but, what about, Booklets, Mini-Sheets, Souvenir Sheets, Maxi Cards, Postal Cards and others items issued by the Country Post Office, associated with one Serie ?
For example, in your DB there are stamps registered, as a normal or singular stamp, when they were only issued in Souvenir Sheet or Mini sheet or Booklet. I don't have this stamps in my collection, like a stamp. I've the Souvenir Sheet.
Stamp catalogues register some of these items associated with the series, mainly the country-specific catalogues, although the big 4 catalogues also have some information.
Stanley Gibbons catalogue does not register (give a number to) stamps issued in Souvenir Sheet. It only refers and numbers the Souvenir Sheet. Michel catalogue numbers everything. Yvert and Scott, too, although using different numbers. Stanley Gibbons don't mentions FDC but Michel does (and only the official, issued by the Country Post Office).
Regards to all
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angore
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What I collect: WW, focus on British Empire
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Post by angore on Sept 24, 2021 9:55:50 GMT
This is an annoyance. They have assigned unique numbers but not always. There is also the situation where there is a sheet and booklet version but there is no number for both even though one may have a straight edge, etc that clearly indicates source. This applies to Scott and SG.
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jln
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What I collect: Portugal and former Portuguese colonies (until 1975). I'm starting with the collection of locally issued stamps or occupation stamps (like WWII).
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Post by jln on Sept 24, 2021 13:01:53 GMT
But Michel give a number to the stamps on the souvenir sheet and mini sheet. Not for FDC or the other items.
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collectordave
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Post by collectordave on Sept 25, 2021 12:00:18 GMT
Mini Sheets and souvenir sheets.
A mini sheet is just a small sheet of stamps, a souvenir sheet has stamps and some form of souvenir printing. Is how I define them in the database (not all done as yet).
You can potentially have three different stamps one from a normal issue ,one from a mini sheet and one from a souvenir sheet.
In the database I am attempting to list all stamps so where a stamp from a mini/souvenir sheet is different from a normal issue it is listed as well.
There are also other catalogue differences such as coil stamps etc. Where a stamp is imperforate on one side, which could be any side some catalogues list the stamp only once the database is attempting to list each individualy.
First day covers seem to be a law unto themselves so in the database will be one entry for each commemorative set.
I am aware that there are more and I am willing, after WSC is settled to write a database programme just for first day covers as I think that is the way to go.
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jln
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What I collect: Portugal and former Portuguese colonies (until 1975). I'm starting with the collection of locally issued stamps or occupation stamps (like WWII).
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Post by jln on Sept 25, 2021 22:01:06 GMT
"A mini sheet is just a small sheet of stamps, a souvenir sheet has stamps and some form of souvenir printing. Is how I define them in the database (not all done as yet)." *** In some countries a Mini Sheet is the Série. In other words, the stamps of the Mini Sheet were only issued in the Mini Sheet and the Série is the Mini Sheet. Especially in African countries. The same applies to Souvenir Sheet. Sometimes the Series consists of a Souvenir Sheet, only. The stamps were issued only in Souvenir Sheet. In this case, there are countries from all continents and in certain cases, the number of this type of issues is high.
"You can potentially have three different stamps one from a normal issue ,one from a mini sheet and one from a souvenir sheet." *** and from Booklet, special sheet, etc.
"There are also other catalogue differences such as coil stamps etc. Where a stamp is imperforate on one side, which could be any side some catalogues list the stamp only once the database is attempting to list each individually." *** for me this types (different perforation. perforation in one side only are varieties. Different colours, inverted surcharges, errors, are errors. The numeration will be equal to the original stamp but with 'a, b, c", etc.
"First day covers seem to be a law unto themselves so in the database will be one entry for each commemorative set. I am aware that there are more and I am willing, after WSC is settled to write a database programme just for first day covers as I think that is the way to go." *** some official issues (from post office) has more than one. In my database they have a different number, not related with the serie.
*** One of the problems, I think, in your DB, is that there is no relationship between the Series and the items issued. In my DB if you select one Serie, all items will be presented (stamps, Fdc, Souvenir sheet, Mini sheet, Booklet, etc.
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collectordave
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Post by collectordave on Sept 27, 2021 3:28:38 GMT
Hi
There is a relationship between the series and the items issued.
You can select a single series and see all the items for that series.
However the database is flexible enough to allow for individual collector tastes. So for example myself, I do not collect first day covers so with a few clicks the database can be set so no data on first day covers is presented along with quite few other item types.
The database is also flexible enough to allow an individual collector to only see data on individual items that they collect so they are not bombarded with information on items that they do not wish to collect.
The database can also be set to display the items in the collectors collection in the order in which the collector wishes.
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jln
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What I collect: Portugal and former Portuguese colonies (until 1975). I'm starting with the collection of locally issued stamps or occupation stamps (like WWII).
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Post by jln on Sept 27, 2021 20:46:49 GMT
Hi cd,
Very good. That said, I don't see the problem to insert more than one FDC or Souvenir Sheet or Maxi Card or postal card, etc, related to a Série. I'm referring to official issues, from each country post office. There are several countries with more than Fdc by Set.
Regards
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