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Post by jamesw on Oct 3, 2021 23:35:15 GMT
Y'all know I recently acquired a USA #1. I often think (and I could be wrong) that the US 1847 #1, and the Penny Black are two of the must haves of many collectors. I no doubt there are those of you who will disagree with me, but these are two I hear about a lot.
As a Canadian citizen AND collector of Canadian stamps, I'd happily add the 1851 beaver to that list.
Today at an antique market I opened a binder of British stamps and immediately came to face with a Penny Black (as well as several Penny Blues and many Penny Reds). I don't collect Great Britain but would like a Black just to have one. However I wasn't willing to pay the dealers price for a binder full of mostly modern inexpensive material, just to have that one stamp, and he definitely was not coming down.
But it got me wondering. What do you think is the scarcest #1 stamp out there? The Penny Black? The 1847 US Franklin? The lowly Canadian beaver? Maybe some of you have some other 'must have' #1s.
So tell me, which do you think is the scarcest? And which would you rather have??
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 4, 2021 8:08:48 GMT
First comment jamesw .. The penny black , albeit the first , is NOT SCARCE . There were 64,000,000 and used on letter cover rather than on an envelope they had a remarkably high survival rate. So price does not equate to scarcity. Issued just a year or two later,was the 6 quartos black Isabella of Spain . Only 6,000,000 so is it 10 times scarcer ? Possibly , but the demand means purchase price is only a fraction of the penny black . 1/10th not 10 times. |
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Beryllium Guy
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What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 4, 2021 8:21:42 GMT
Interesting topic for a new thread, James ( jamesw), thanks for that. So, you are asking which Country Number One stamp that a member would choose, then, if that member could have any one that he or she wished, and why they would choose it? And also which, is someone's opinion, is the scarcest? Well, that second part leads to a slightly tangential subject about rarity versus scarcity, which Vince ( stanley64) addressed very well in his TSF Newsletter article this past year, and then some further discussion along the lines of what Alex ( vikingeck) has now pointed out about the Penny Black and its value to collectors versus other Number One issues. That topic was raised some time ago on another thread, and you might have missed it: thestampforum.boards.net/post/99927/threadHope that this may help to further the discussion. In the meantime, I will have a think about which Number One I would most like to have and why....  |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,911
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Oct 4, 2021 8:22:45 GMT
Interesting observation between a couple #1's: GB Penny Black 1840, printed qty - 68,158,080 - Stampworld value - $225 GB 2p Blue 1840, printed qty - 6,462,960 - Stampworld value - $337 Spain 6c Black 1850, printed qty - 6,226,727 - Stampworld value - $11 This is a very stark example of how popularity affects value, over scarcity. The GB #1 had more than 10x the qty printed than the Spain #1, yet the relative values show that the GB #1 is valued at MORE than 20x that of Spain. The GB #2, which was a lot closer to the printed qty as that of Spain #1, even slightly more, is valued 30x higher. Not trying to say anything about GB #1, as it's still the classic of classics IMHO, just an observation. And yes I know using Stampworld as a value measuring stick is not accurate, I just used it for relativity. I can't help but wonder, if the number of collectors suddenly decided to collect Spain #1, as hotly as GB #1, would the relative value rise to that of GB #1, or even GB #2? Yes, even a damaged Penny Black has a market price out of proportion to its worth. I have sold a mutilated Penny Black for £40 which if it had been a Penny Red in the same condition I would have destroyed and chucked away. I also have these THREE nice Isabella 6 Quarto on sale on eBay with no takers at $18 !  If they were Penny Blacks they would fly at that price. James ( jamesw), here is a quoted version of Richard's ( spain1850) post, with a response by Alex ( vikingeck), now here for everyone's reference. |
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vikingeck
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Posts: 3,551
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 4, 2021 9:28:39 GMT
Obviously some #1 will be imposssible for 99.9% of collectors due to very limited supply and seldom on the market, and never at an affordable price.
Classics such as Mauritius #1 & 2. Only a dozen exist and they are all documented and accounted for.
Realistically most #1 will be sought after and have a premium value just because they are #1 and every country will have a following.
I think the one I am looking for ( around $1000) and so maybe just affordable would be Bavaria ,the Schwartzer Einser 1 kr black, or maybe Finland 5 and 10 Kop oval
both are scarcer by far than the penny black and both come much more expensive .
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renden
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Posts: 9,162
What I collect: Canada-USA-France-Lithuania-Austria--Germany-Mauritius-French Colonies in Africa
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Post by renden on Oct 4, 2021 12:15:16 GMT
Y'all know I recently acquired a USA #1. I often think (and I could be wrong) that the US 1847 #1, and the Penny Black are two of the must haves of many collectors. I no doubt there are those of you who will disagree with me, but these are two I hear about a lot. As a Canadian citizen AND collector of Canadian stamps, I'd happily add the 1851 beaver to that list. The # 1 Beaver (mine) is my choice (my avatar)  - René |
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Post by jamesw on Oct 4, 2021 12:18:22 GMT
Excellent gents! Keep it coming. I know the question was a little convoluted, and everyones wants will be a little different, but, YA! interesting to hear your opinions.
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hdm1950
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Posts: 1,887
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Oct 4, 2021 13:28:48 GMT
Being originally from Nova Scotia that provinces #1 is my favourite followed closely by the Canada #1 beaver. Often #1’s are the lowest rate with higher denomination stamps issued at about the same time often being rarer and much more expensive to own.
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Post by michael on Oct 4, 2021 14:46:37 GMT
Being originally from Nova Scotia that provinces #1 is my favourite followed closely by the Canada #1 beaver. Often #1’s are the lowest rate with higher denomination stamps issued at about the same time often being rarer and much more expensive to own. Agree, but also No.1 in the catalogue is not necessarily the first stamp that was issued. Nova Scotia is a good example. The 3d, 6d and 1s were issued on 1 September 1851. The 1d value with a different design from a different die and plate was issued nearly 2 years later on 12 May 1853. So the first stamps issued are the 3d, 6d and 1s values whilst annoyingly Stanley Gibbons and Scott have the number 1 as the 1d value. How it should be (unfortunately reprints!)
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vikingeck
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What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 4, 2021 16:39:34 GMT
The same is true also for Denmark. The 4 rigsbankskilling was released a couple of weeks before the local 2 RBS was available.
Most catalogues list the 2RBS as # 1. The Danish AFA catalogue has the 4 RBS as #1, and they should know the right of it .
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