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Post by biglavalamp on Oct 26, 2021 18:39:23 GMT
Read newspaper article for more info: www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/world-penny-british-b962558.htmlThe Penny Black, the earliest securely dated example of the very first postage stamp, is expected to fetch between £4 million and £6 million when it is sold at Sotheby’s in December as part of the Treasures collection.  |
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stainlessb
Member 
qaStaHvIS yIn 'ej chep
Posts: 4,642
What I collect: currently focused on most of western Europe, much of which is spent on France, Belgium, Germany and Great Britain Queen Victoria
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Post by stainlessb on Oct 26, 2021 19:01:58 GMT
darn... I just spent my allowance for the month.... oh well  |
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Post by dgdecker on Oct 26, 2021 19:06:49 GMT
Interesting item. Too bad it is so far above what my budget will allow.
David
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WERT
Departed
Rest in Peace
Posts: 1,062
What I collect: Canada and Provinces
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Post by WERT on Oct 26, 2021 19:12:30 GMT
I will post the picture when i get it in the mail.....hahaha
Robert
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 26, 2021 19:32:44 GMT
Meantime I still have one on offer at eBay at £39.99 (Or even here !). just a wee bit cheaper 😀😀😀  |
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REL1948
Member
Posts: 583 
What I collect: 1840-Pre-Decimal, GB and Colonies, 1840 1 penny reds, Postal Histories
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Post by REL1948 on Oct 26, 2021 22:27:47 GMT
Congratulations biglavalamp on reaching your first 100 posts. Keep them coming and thank you for sharing... Great Stuff!
Rob
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,598
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Oct 26, 2021 22:41:25 GMT
Meantime I still have one on offer at eBay at £39.99 (Or even here !). just a wee bit cheaper 😀😀😀 Funny that I do not see it on your usual eBay site. Edit....found it along with the lovely valentine cards.  |
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Post by michael on Oct 27, 2021 9:05:45 GMT
It's a shame he didn't help out Stanley Gibbons and thus our hobby by auctioning it at a Specialist Stamp Auctioneer rather than at Sotherby's. As for the price, far too high.
Hopefully he will reveal in an article how his '3 years research' has proved that it is from the first sheet.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 27, 2021 11:29:30 GMT
It's a shame he didn't help out Stanley Gibbons and thus our hobby by auctioning it at a Specialist Stamp Auctioneer rather than at Sotherby's. As for the price, far too high. Hopefully he will reveal in an article how his '3 years research' has proved that it is from the first sheet. Sotheby’s (sic) is a major auction house and as such does hold regular Specialist stamp Auctions . they have handled many important stamp collections, so why should they not handle this item? however it does seem to be more than just an overpriced Penny Black. What is being sold is an historic document relating to the launch of postal reform , gathered by one of the key players in that reform , with which the very early stamp and a Mulready cover are combined. Mind you , I do wonder at the projected price. Who has the kind of money to indulge in such a bid? Maybe Stanley Gibbons will buy it and, like the British Guyana magenta, offer us all the “ once in a life time” chance to become shareholder & part owner,😎 |
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Post by michael on Oct 27, 2021 11:50:21 GMT
vikingeck Go through Sotherby's current calendar and you probably won't find any general stamp sales like SG, Spink, Grosvenor, Cavendish etc. have. It would have been nice to sell it through SG as they need the commission to keep trading
Just my opinion which never seems to be the same as yours.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 27, 2021 12:19:35 GMT
vikingeck Go through Sotherby's current calendar and you probably won't find any general stamp sales like SG, Spink, Grosvenor, Cavendish etc. have. It would have been nice to sell it through SG as they need the commission to keep trading
Just my opinion which never seems to be the same as yours.
Ok I take your point about Sotheby’s being principally Fine Art, but with that price target it needs big hitters ( sadly as an artefact it may not even be a stamp collector who buys it!) I was recently gifted the Sotheby’s Auction catalogue for the Cape triangles collection of Sir Maxwell Joseph, which led me to comment that they do handle notable philatelic sales . I have to admit that sale was back in 1982! Do our opinions really “never seem to be the same….” I would be sad if that was the case as I am unaware of any previous disagreement . |
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Ryan
Member
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 2,720
What I collect: If I have a catalogue for it, I collect it. And I have many catalogues ....
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Post by Ryan on Oct 27, 2021 12:34:54 GMT
Hopefully he will reveal in an article how his '3 years research' has proved that it is from the first sheet. and there it says that authentication for that has been received from The Royal Philatelic Society and the British Philatelic Association. The owner of the stamp also says it has to be worth more than the British Guiana 1 cent magenta because that thing isn't even a stamp and nobody knows where Guyana is anyway. ha ha Meanwhile, The Guardian manages to say that the corner letters spell out A-1 (number 1), not A-I (letter I). Oops. Ryan |
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Post by michael on Oct 27, 2021 13:59:23 GMT
It was sold to Alan Holyoake in 2013 through a Feldman auction:
They used the word 'probably' twice with repect to being from the 1st printing. Will be interesting to see how they have proved that and why they think it's worth at least 160 times what it sold for then, when it only made half the lower estimate.
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Post by biglavalamp on Oct 27, 2021 16:27:42 GMT
Congratulations biglavalamp on reaching your first 100 posts. Keep them coming and thank you for sharing... Great Stuff!
Rob Thanks Rob just enjoying in participating in TSF and hopefully increasing my knowledge of stamps . |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 27, 2021 17:04:33 GMT
It was sold to Alan Holyoake in 2013 through a Feldman auction:
They used the word 'probably' twice with repect to being from the 1st printing. Will be interesting to see how they have proved that and why they think it's worth at least 160 times what it sold for then, when it only made half the lower estimate.
That sale description is a fascinating find michael thank you for quoting, puts a new perspective on the potential sale. Certainly makes the new estimate “interesting” to say the very least ! |
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Post by michael on Oct 27, 2021 17:47:46 GMT
For those of you who don't know who Alan Holyoake is, he's a British businessman who in 2001, on a business trip abroad whilst flying, read about the Queen selling some of her stamps to finance a purchase of a multiple Penny Black first day cover. He became interested and was the mystery buyer at the auction. He knew nothing about stamps but became interested in the Penny Black and became a serious collector. His Penny Black exhibit won the Grand Prix price at the London 2010 International Stamp Exhibition. His book 'The World's First Postage Stamp' is a must for anyone interested in this iconic stamp.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 27, 2021 18:45:18 GMT
The cover michael refers to is the so called “ Kirkcudbright Cover” for which Her Majesty had to pawn her jewels and sell off a few spare stamps to buy for £250.000 . It has 10 Penny Blacks, on a first day cove 6 May 1840, unique and the largest known multiple on cover. It must have been a huge heavy letter. When I am at my desk computer I will try to post an image later.  My claim to fame (or infamy ) occurred when this very cover was on display at Scottish Congress under the care of the Keeper of the Royal collection ,Michael Seffi . I was browsing the Royal display and was called away to meet someone across the hall. My large briefcase 💼 I left under a chair beside the display . As I returned some 10 minutes later to collect it I was met by a panic stricken show organiser who was within a few seconds of clearing the hall due to my suspect package! What an embarrassment 🥵🤭. It probably explains why I have never been nominated for a Knighthood , nor even invited to one of HM’s garden parties. |
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kasvik
Member
Posts: 542
What I collect: Cancels mostly, especially Sweden Gävle and Lidingö, Switzerland Geneva, Germany Pforzheim
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Post by kasvik on Oct 27, 2021 20:07:54 GMT
No doubt about it, hype works. They don’t deserve more than one-tenth of their hopes, but no doubt they’ll get a lot more than EUR 50,000. It’s a special stamp, but unique? Only if we ignore the other seventy million, which Sotheby’s desperately wants us to. It certainly isn’t unique like the Guiana one cent magenta or Swedish yellow three skilling.
This reminds me a little of PSE’s certification/grading of otherwise unremarkable used stamps, creating huge value out of next to nothing. If every stamp is unique, all you need is enough PR campaigning to inflate a balloon. We have seen the future!
I especially love the description of The Famous Wallace Document, famous meaning, ‘We know you never heard of it, but we wish you had.’
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Oct 31, 2021 18:41:26 GMT
Meantime I still have one on offer at eBay at £39.99 Well. A result I guess , 3 bids from two bidders in China,have realised £45 for the lady owner.about what I predicted for a freshlooking used stamp with effectively a damaged top edge. . |
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 3,261
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Jan 8, 2022 23:12:57 GMT
The Wallace document with what is described as the first Penny Black failed to make the starting pre sale estimate of £4 -£6 million at Sotheby’s Treasures sale on 7th December. michael was critical of the sale being part of a Treasures sale , ie it was not a stamp sale where it might have fared better. I have to agree his assessment was correct, the price was set far too high and this was not the sale to enter the only philatelic item along with art works, historic silver and furniture . |
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radiocruncher
Member
Posts: 317
What I collect: GB especially Wildings and Machins. Early Germany to 1945
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Post by radiocruncher on Jan 8, 2022 23:57:58 GMT
Very interesting thread. I never knew this existed and that first day cover is amazing
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crisger
Member
Artist and Digital Creations
Posts: 102
What I collect: Japan 1890s -2012
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Post by crisger on Mar 13, 2022 18:32:49 GMT
It is amazing, the historic value none with standing of course, to think that a small square of paper and ink might convert into such a huge amount of wealth. Similar to fine art paintings, which started barely at the value of the materials that made them to thru clever marketing by dealers, and auction houses to huge feels now like the works of Claude Monet.
I have known of this issue for many years but it is interesting to see a good photo of one thanks
Chris
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