darkormex
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Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,058
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 15, 2021 1:16:16 GMT
When I was younger, perhaps a teenager, I went through a period where I collected US First Day Covers. For about two years I subscribed to Fleetwood's services and received a new group of covers as new US stamps were issued. I still have all of them but they are gathering dust in a wooden box I have used for a while to store covers, fdcs and a few odds and ends like currency, postcards, etc.. that I just accumulated over the years.
I stopped collecting them and let the subscription drop and completely lost interest when I was still a teenager. I still have no real interest in collecting them but retain them if they come my way, perhaps to enhance my stamp collection for a specific country, but otherwise don't actively seek them out...that is, until now.
I mentioned previously that I started a new topical collection and I have started looking at stamps, cinderellas, postmarks, and first day covers, that are related to my topic. When I look at eBay listings for First Day Covers, however, I have real concerns about the price of some of the items for sale or auction on eBay. I realize there are various criteria including the cachet maker, the stamp(s) on the cover, the condition, whether it was addressed to someone, etc...that determine the price but I feel I have no way of determining what a realistic price would be for the item for sale. Does anybody know of a good resource for judging what is a rip-off vs. what is a reasonable price for an FDC?
Does anyone on the forum collect FDCs? What are your thoughts?
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renden
Member
Posts: 7,833
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 15, 2021 1:30:11 GMT
darkormexI do and this because of my dad (late dad) - He loved FDCs - so I ended up with US, Canada, World.....FDCs and they are pretty nice Now there are different FDCs but I am no expert so I will let the others explain. I also like a nice COVER with classic stamps. I have not bought many in my life but have given many to friends. US+ Canada is the major portion (90%) and I have many FDC albums to keep them protected. I put many in the postmark date thread. Our friend Pete brightonpete.....gave me many LUXEMBOURG covers !! Have fun but do not spend too much - some are too expensive on Ebay etc...... René
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Beryllium Guy
Moderator
Posts: 5,164
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on Dec 15, 2021 1:47:29 GMT
Thanks for your post, Darrin ( darkormex ). It's an interesting subject. A bit similar to both your situation and René's ( renden), I also collected FDCs in my youth, mainly because my Dad liked them, and he got me started. I collected for a while, but I rather quickly became overwhelmed by storage issues, and I decided to stop. Despite having made that decision years ago, FDCs still find their way to me in mixed lots and collections that are given to me. The only ones that are of interest to me these days are ones that are topical/ thematic, again, similar to what you are now doing. So, I have set up a binder with pages for FDCs, and I just keep the ones that mean something to me, if they come from a place, topic, date, or person of interest. Otherwise, I use them as giveaway items. In general, it is my impression that most post-WWII era FDCs are not expensive price-wise, although certain ones may bring a premium. But the earlier ones can be quite valuable, as Alex ( vikingeck ) showed us not long ago with some Hong Kong FDCs for the KGVI Coronation issue that brought a much higher than expected price. Perhaps that was fluke, but I think if you have the right item and the right buyer, and especially classic era material, the prices will be more substantial. Just my opinion, of course, and others are welcome!
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,121
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Dec 15, 2021 2:26:00 GMT
The good news is that I have never had an attraction to FDC’s even when I started collecting in the 1950’s, nor did my dad. The bad news is that over the years I have had to handle my share of them as they came with estate lots. I would try selling them at my local collectables/antique market where I rented a table for years. It was hard to get much more than 1.00 CDN a piece for them. Eventually I would end up dumping them in auctions where they would go for next to nothing.
That being said I do have some, well maybe a bunch, I have kept and I have even bought a few due to personal connections to the cover. My advice is similar to others. Buy what you like, but it is rare in my mind that any post 1950 FDC is worth more than 3.00 to 5.00.
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,058
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 15, 2021 2:38:06 GMT
Beryllium Guy, Chris, thank you for your input. My topic is mainly going to consist of stamps that are modern...mostly post-1960 so my gut says, and eBay bears this out, that most of the FDCs are going to be from private FDC makers with covers from postal entities being in the minority. There are sites that specialize in selling FDCs, and I have reviewed pricing on these sites and it tends to run cheaper than what is on eBay but the selection, especially of non-US items is just not there. Perhaps I am looking in the wrong place. I guess I am just looking for what should one expect to pay for FDCs or, better yet, some sort of price guide. eBay sellers are all over the map in terms of what they are selling items for.
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,058
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 15, 2021 2:42:58 GMT
hdm1950 , you echo how I feel and/or what I have realized over the years...modern FDCs should not be more than $3.00 to $5.00, especially considering how difficult it is to sell them. I just don't think there are that many collectors out there that buy them and that maybe even those prices are a bit of a stretch.
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hrdoktorx
Member
Posts: 5,796
What I collect: France (and French territories), Africa, Canada, USA, Germany, Guatemala, stamps about science, flags, maps, stamps on stamps...
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Post by hrdoktorx on Dec 15, 2021 6:43:14 GMT
I have a very similar story to darkormex. I was also a subscriber to Fleetwood in my teenage years and got sets of FDCs from the USA and over places, which then needed their own FDC albums. I also kept buying Canada's FDCs as part of my Canada Post subscription until recently. But I have also tended to move away from them. I will buy them if this is the only way I can acquire a stamp I am looking for, but otherwise do not seek them out.
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vikingeck
Member
Posts: 2,805
What I collect: Samoa, Tobacco theme, Mail in Wartime, anything odd and unusual!
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Post by vikingeck on Dec 15, 2021 7:53:11 GMT
Chris Beryllium Guy mentioned the surprising success I had with 1935-1937 Hong Kong first day covers sold on EBay. Two of these were out of the ordinary, one had been mailed in a small sub post office so the postmark was much more valuable than the stamps, the other was a scarcer set on a registered cover at a time when First day of mailing was still unusual and quirky with only a few keen collectors making their own covers on the day of issue. This period can produce some relatively pricy FDCs in the $20-$50 range By the 1950s there was a growing industry preparing covers in bulk using envelopes pre-printed with generic cachets and soon postal authorities started making their own covers for release on the issue date . These are numerous , plentiful and cheap. One or two more recent cover makers have gone to greater imaginative lengths to organise special covers with silk cachets , special illustrated postmarks , and getting personalities connected to the issue to sign some covers. These can sell at a premium and will be more unusual and can enhance a topic collection
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,587
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 15, 2021 8:05:32 GMT
As an active collector of FDCs of both US Transportation Plate Number Coil (PNC) and Canada's Locomotive Series as shared in an earlier post here, I can say that, I have set what I consider a reasonable price for adding any new material to the collection. Indeed though Darrin( darkormex), the current pricing is all over the shop...
20¢ Cable Car (Scott 2263) Plate Coil n.º 1 Issue Date & City - October 28, 1988, San Francisco, California
For the more common material, I keep my spending limits quite low (I have both time and patience), but am prepared to spend for something that is out of the ordinary, e.g. special delivery, registered, unique cachet, etc. Keep in mind, that no matter how obtuse your collecting interests are, there is likely someone else out there that wants those unique, rare or special items for there own collection.
Education, education, education; know the market for your particular interests and be prepared to spend for quality - others are ;-) In the meantime...
Happy collecting!
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tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,782
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Dec 15, 2021 8:28:55 GMT
I don't collect FDC, but I have a lot (1000) of them. They have all been a part of auction lot's where I was interested in something else in the lot. Actually I scanned the Norwegian (200) yesterday to put them out for sale. I set the start price 3-10 nok ($0,33-1,1). I don't get rich but they will end up with someone who want then and can use them. The auction site has a low fee and only fee on the sale, no fee on listing. It will take some time to list all..... And then there is the rest, Danish, Icelandic, Swiss, and more. A year or two ago there was published a Norwegian FDC catalog, I think it has been mentioned here before. After that catalog came the interest for FDC has grown, but not enough to give good prices. But the older the FDC the better. And some 'vignettes' are more in demand than others. But I don't have the catalogue and have no ide of the prices and what exactly that people look for.
I have also give away FDC for free. I sell stamps and sometime there is room for a FDC ore two in the envelope without going over the postage that is paid. I have had some good feedback for that.
I could have collected FDC but I would newer paid for a subscription. But I already collect to much and better to pas them of to someone that collect them.
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tobben63
Member
Stamp eat sleep repeat
Posts: 1,782
What I collect: I collect to much, world wide!
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Post by tobben63 on Dec 15, 2021 8:34:05 GMT
Here is the Norwegian site listing Norwegian FDCIf you look in the menu you will find other thins that maybe interest you. If you want to bay something here, contact the seller and ask if he/she send to your country and the freight prices.
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,058
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 15, 2021 12:29:45 GMT
stanley64, I have several FDCs of the transportation coils series in the set of Fleetwood covers and I also collect pnc used singles. Alas, there were no transportation coils with plate numbers on any of these FDCs...I would have wished to put them into my collection. Do you only collect the FDCs if they have the pnc or transportation series fdcs generally?
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,058
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 15, 2021 12:30:47 GMT
tobben63, thank you for the link. I may try to reach out to some of the sellers. I see a couple of FDCs I would like on this site.
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Dec 15, 2021 13:12:31 GMT
I have collected FDC's off and on. I really don't know why. They are large, hard to display, not to mention pricey, needing all those binders etc. to store them. I did buy a pile of Luxembourg FDC's, thinking they'd make a nice addition to my collection. But they sat in a box, forgotten. Now renden has them, and he likes them much more than I do! I think I kept one or two, but that's enough for me.
Years ago, I was buying FDC's from Canada Post, but stopped, as I'd rather spend what little money I had on mint stamps instead.
I have a few covers of interest, but not many.
Peter
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renden
Member
Posts: 7,833
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 15, 2021 14:21:30 GMT
Thanks darkormex for this thread - super interesting and different (so are the opinions) ! One or twice a year I will buy a FDC in Canada because it is close to me and at one time in TSF I received some gifts from members, and Pete was brightonpete my biggest giver(Luxembourg) as well as Stan stainlessb who gave me his G Mom's covers (of Canada) !! René
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brightonpete
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Post by brightonpete on Dec 15, 2021 15:17:07 GMT
On seeing renden 's latest Postmark Calendar post, I'd be more interested in FDC's if they were actually sent through the mail like that one. Great cover René! I love the extra bit added on to the cancel, and of course the cachet! Now if they were all similar, maybe I'd have collected them. But unaddressed cover with run-of-the-mill cancels like we have in Canada? Meh! The American's do FDC's so much better!
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Mr. H
Member
Member - APS #129381
Posts: 801
What I collect: US, Netherlands, Whatever suits my fancy.
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Post by Mr. H on Dec 15, 2021 15:47:53 GMT
I do collect FDCs, but only for the Netherlands. I inherited my Netherlands collection from my father, who had a standing order for all stamps and covers in with the Dutch post office and I have kept the subscription going.
I save FDCs from other countries.
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renden
Member
Posts: 7,833
What I collect: World W collector with ++ interests in BNA (Canada etc) and USA
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Post by renden on Dec 15, 2021 16:12:51 GMT
Thanks Pete brightonpete for your fine comments I have to show this cover because my late dad had decided (see the link) to print his own Covers (about 100) with very nice Canada stamps and got all covers cancelled officially for Oct 13,14,15 1979 when the TRAIN passed in Edmundston. www.themetrains.com/discovery-train-main.htmNote on an example of his covers the details and at the bottom right, le logo of his Company " LM" for Le Madawaska - name of his newspaper and Company (printing etc) René 
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Admin
Administrator
Posts: 2,489
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Post by Admin on Dec 15, 2021 16:38:29 GMT
darkormex , I actively collect FDC's of the 1945 U.S. Iwo Jima stamp (Scott 929) and the 1935 China Clipper stamp (Scott C20). I have many others but they primarily reside in archival holders and are housed in boxes with the majority of my other covers and postal cards. As to catalog value, the Scott U.S. Specialized catalog has price lists for FDCs, as does Unitrade for those of Canada. The various Mellone/Planty catalogs provide valuations for U.S. FDCs based on their cachets but, like other CVs, they often can be well over market value. You might find it useful to check ebay's sold listings for covers of interest to get a sense of market value.
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eggdog
Member
Did I tell you about our new dog?
Posts: 421
What I collect: Mostly eastern and southeastern Europe, some Central America, postally used Africa - and Norway because everybody should collect someplace that doesn't have civil wars.
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Post by eggdog on Dec 15, 2021 18:50:41 GMT
I haven't followed that market for a donkey's years, but United States FDCs from the 1960s and up (at least until some indeterminate time) should be easily available. Some of the mainstream souvenir-hawkers of the 1970s (not necessarily Franklin Mint but outfits like that) heavily promoted them as surefire investments. One of my neighbors subscribed to a service like that and planned to put her son through college with them.
Covers from that time and into the 1980s are still around. Two of my wife's friends gave me a couple of boxes of them last year. If I were to build or rebuild a collection with that kind of material, I'd start by prowling around in auctions that have box-lot sections. Vance Auctions in Ontario comes to mind. (I'm really only talking about the States and Canada here. I don't know much about anywhere else.)
I never got thoroughly into FDCs, but I remember sending off for a few when I was like 7 years old, when you could put an envelope and a dime in a bigger envelope and mail it to wherever they were having the first-day ceremony. There are some good memories with that. And one those boxes from my wife's friend was full of spaceships and astronauts, which always makes me feel good. If there's one thing I believed in 1961 and still believe now, it's that Alan Shepard was the coolest guy who ever lived, ever.
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brightonpete
Departed
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On a hike at Goodrich-Loomis
Posts: 5,110
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Post by brightonpete on Dec 15, 2021 19:41:50 GMT
If there's one thing I believed in 1961 and still believe now, it's that Alan Shepard was the coolest guy who ever lived, ever. I'm reading Chris Hadfield's thriller "The Apollo Murders" and it's a good one. It brings back to life all these astronauts, like Al Shepherd! It'll make a gangbuster of a movie, I hope!
Peter
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,121
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Dec 15, 2021 21:08:28 GMT
If there's one thing I believed in 1961 and still believe now, it's that Alan Shepard was the coolest guy who ever lived, ever. I'm reading Chris Hadfield's thriller "The Apollo Murders" and it's a good one. It brings back to life all these astronauts, like Al Shepherd! It'll make a gangbuster of a movie, I hope!
PeterIf you like humor and space travel then you would enjoy 'Up and Down' by Canadian author Terry Fallis. I just finished reading it. It was published in 2012 and I some how missed it as I have read several of his books. It is a bit dated due to the space tourism industry now but still had me laughing often. I know this does not relate to the topic of FDC's but we drifted into books with your post Pete brightonpete
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Post by dgdecker on Dec 15, 2021 21:26:43 GMT
I do not actively collect FDC at this point. As others have stated I did collect in my youth. Mostly from subscription with Canada Post. A few US as well. Generally keep if any come my way. I will purchase if it ties in somehow to my collections. I agree that pricing is all over the board on EBay. At least for Canadian FDC I can see a catalogue price. If a price is high I do question the seller. This has added some useful info as to the higher price. Others just do not respond. If I see something I like , I will look around for the best price. Storage was another reason I stopped too.
David
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,587
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 16, 2021 8:55:55 GMT
Do you only collect the FDCs if they have the pnc or transportation series fdcs generally? Only those with the plate number darkormex. The FDCs supplement my collection of PNC strips from the same series...
Happy collecting!
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,058
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 16, 2021 12:07:44 GMT
Admin, thank you for the reminder that the US Specialized has US FDC prices. I had completely forgotten about this. I was already looking at eBay sold pricing and just scratching my head at what people are willing to pay. The non-US FDCs are the hardest for me to judge accurately. I see some covers from Asian countries that are being sold and selling in the double digits. My strategy so far has been to go for the low hanging fruit and watch for new listings that have lower prices and are buy it now.
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hdm1950
Member
Posts: 1,121
What I collect: I collect world wide up to 1965 with several specialty albums added due to volume of material I have acquired. At this point I am focused on Canada and British America. I am always on the lookout for stamps and covers with postmarks from communities in Queens County, Nova Scotia. I do list various goods including stamps occasionally on eBay as hdm50
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Post by hdm1950 on Dec 16, 2021 12:32:35 GMT
Admin , thank you for the reminder that the US Specialized has US FDC prices. I had completely forgotten about this. I was already looking at eBay sold pricing and just scratching my head at what people are willing to pay. The non-US FDCs are the hardest for me to judge accurately. I see some covers from Asian countries that are being sold and selling in the double digits. My strategy so far has been to go for the low hanging fruit and watch for new listings that have lower prices and are buy it now. The Asian prices is not surprising. It has been happening in most fields of collecting due to the exploding middle class in China. Much there was destroyed during the cultural revolution so they are searching world wide to find things from their own country. Another area that surprised me at one time was the Middle East. I had a quantity of 1970's era FDC's from that region I tried on eBay and they sold in the 30.00-50.00 range. Trends come and go.
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darkormex
Member
Swinging through Switzerland and getting tied up in Thailand
Posts: 2,058
What I collect: The World...just printing and mounting as I go...call me crazy!
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Post by darkormex on Dec 16, 2021 12:44:46 GMT
There is this dichotomy in my head between commercially produced covers, covers produced by postal entities, and a stamp put on an envelope on the first day of issue of that stamp and used to mail an actual letter regardless of whether it was done with philatelic intent or not. I will collect any of them that fit within my topic but I am a bit prejudice against the commercially produced ones because they feel inauthentic and, at least as far as I can tell right now, seem to be the ones that are over-priced. Whereas, I feel like the Hong Kong covers that vikingeck sold are more authentically produced and worthy of the higher prices they fetch. I also see hand-drawn or hand-painted fdcs which have a lot of appeal and these also have higher prices but I can understand this because there is labor and craftsmanship that go into creating these.
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stanley64
Member
Posts: 1,587
What I collect: Canada, USA, Netherlands, Portugal & Colonies, Antarctic Territories and anything that catches my eye...
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Post by stanley64 on Dec 16, 2021 12:53:07 GMT
FDC Collecting appears to be alive, well and quite active as the British North America Philatelic Society Ltd. ( BNAPS) has this year published several new books on the topic:
First Day Covers of the 1942 Canada King George VI War Issue - Donald J. Leblanc, October 2021 Detailed catalogue of the many different first day covers prepared for the War Issue stamps released in 1942 and 1943.
Canada Post Office Replacement and Publicity First Day Covers - Andrew Chung and Robert D. Vogel, October 2021 Studies the covers and enclosures that Canada Post used to replace lost or damaged first day covers. Also includes the FDCs that Canada Post prepared for a variety of important and influential individuals throughout the world.
Canadian First Day Covers by Artopages - Gary Dickinson, October 2021 Explores the 245 FDCs issued by Artopage Covers between 1967 and 1976.
View the latest BNAPS book releases here...
Happy collecting!
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Post by stamphinger on Dec 17, 2021 16:41:01 GMT
I collect a few first-day covers, but mostly by default in that I purchase them for attributes other than the first-day cancel or cachet, usually, for a cinderella tied to the cover such as those below: No "first day of issue" in the cancel, but Sc. 947, 3 cents postage stamp centenary was issued on May 17, 1947.
Again, no "first day of issue' in cancel, but this air mail postal stationery item, Sc. UC17 was issued on May 21, 1947. Another exception is commercial usage first-day covers such as this one from the Texas Refinery Corporation of Fort Worth:
Don StampHinger
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de61
Member
Posts: 258
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Post by de61 on Dec 28, 2021 5:05:14 GMT
Like many of you, I started collecting US FDCs in my teens with a subscription service. The difference is I remained an active collector, buyer, and seller for many years. I stopped collecting them when my interest waned about 15 years ago. My collection currently consists of about 10,000 FDCs, which are contained in albums sorted by cachetmaker. They certainly take up a lot of space, which is a detriment to collectors. Nowadays, I only collect worldwide FDCs that pertain to my topical collections. As to Darrin's darkormex question about prices, the key elements are cachetmaker, stamp topic, and period of issue. FDCs issued by the common commercial producers during the 1940s and 1950s are plentiful and cheap. As an example, I used to sell addressed ArtCraft, Artmaster, C. Stephen Anderson, Fleetwood, Ioor, and Cachetcraft - Ken Boll 2-color FDCs at 3 for $1.00. Unaddressed (never addressed) were 2 for $1.00. And I was making a decent profit at these prices. Of course, there are exceptions. ArtCraft sometimes sold cacheted FDCs with different colored cachets that sell for a premium. Ken Boll cachets in 4 colors from this period sell for between $2.50 and $6.00 each. Likewise, any Fleetwood FDCs with a Dorothy Knapp design sell for a premium. Hand-colored Dorothy Knapp FDCs sell for hundreds of dollars each. US FDCs from the period before 1940 generally sell for more and the prices are heavily dependent on the cachetmaker. After 1960, many of the commercial producers ceased operations as the cachet artists passed on and collector interest diminished. The primary commercial producers - ArtCraft, Artmaster, and Fleetwood (Unicover) - continued on, but reduced the number of cacheted envelopes based on sales. Reductions in the number of cacheted envelopes produced continued decade by decade and the prices correspondingly rose. Today, it can be difficult to find FDCs from these producers for certain stamps issued during the late 1990s and early 2000s, so these FDCs command a premium. Additionally, FDCs for popular stamp issues, like the 1968 Walt Disney stamp and any baseball-themed stamp, tend to sell for higher prices, regardless of the cachetmaker. During this same period, hand-painted and hand-colored FDCs became more popular. These are the types of FDCs most sought after by collectors today. As collector interest in FDCs has generally decreased, prices have fallen, even for desirable FDCs. I have a number of scarce FDCs that would undoubtedly still command decent prices, but the bulk of my collection would likely sell for about what I paid for them. That being said, the FDC market also tends to be cyclical, so there may be an uptick in the future.
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