zipper
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Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 20, 2022 3:46:31 GMT
Is this the right catalog number? (The line is from the plastic holding it on the sheet.)  |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,656 
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on May 20, 2022 7:09:10 GMT
Hi, Zip ( zipper), and thanks for your post. I got rid of the duplicate thread for you. Below is an excerpt from The Micarelli Identification Guide to United States Stamps. When I am working on US classics, this is my go-to reference. I find it much easier to figure out the correct catalogue number using this format rather than working directly in the Scott Catalogue. For your stamp, it looks like it could be a US Sc156. It depends if it has the secret mark as shown in Footnote 77 in the reference. Hope this helps.   |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 20, 2022 7:54:23 GMT
Thanks, Chris. I forgot I had that book. Starting to sink into senility.
Now that you posted that page, it looks like a 145. Bought it listed as a 156. What do you think?
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,656
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on May 20, 2022 8:37:57 GMT
Thanks for your response, Zip ( zipper ). The difference between an Sc145 and an Sc156 should be pretty clear. The Sc145 does not have the secret mark (dash or crescent-shaped mark in the bottom of the first pearl to the left of "1") and the Sc156 does. Your posted image is a bit blurry, so it's hard for me to tell if I can see the mark or not. As you have the stamp, when you magnify it, can you see the mark in the pearl? |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 20, 2022 8:40:15 GMT
No, I can't. Made it smaller -- easier to see.  |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 20, 2022 8:44:44 GMT
Even smaller. Should I change the title?  |
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,656
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on May 20, 2022 8:54:11 GMT
Thanks for those further posts, zipper. I have identified a few of these myself, but I don't consider myself particularly adept at it. Sometimes, I end up going back and forth between two possibilities, and have trouble making up my mind. It's not always clear cut. Your images all look a bit blurry to me, but it looks to me like there is a mark in the pearl, but I am not 100% sure. If it were mine, I would probably go with Sc156. But I absolutely could be wrong about this. Let's tag some other members and see if anyone else can offer a comment: Jack ( banknoteguy) Kim ( khj) Steve ( tomiseksj) Apologies if I am forgetting someone else who may have more experience in this area. |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 20, 2022 9:04:20 GMT
I understand. I need new glasses, but because of the virus, I won't leave my building.
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Post by carabop on May 21, 2022 3:43:31 GMT
Sorry I can't help either. I can't see well enough to see the mark in the pearl. Stupid steroids I'm on ruin a persons eyes and a whole lot more.
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khj
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Post by khj on May 21, 2022 6:46:04 GMT
Sorry, but I can't tell for sure either from the resolution of the pic. It looks like your scanner resolution is insufficient (or maybe that was the scan provided by the seller?). If you are unable to provide a higher resolution scan, can you take a cellphone pic of the stamp? Try to get as close as possible to the stamp with your cellphone, without losing focus (still prioritize focus; but do try to get closer to stamp, focus-permitting). Here's a comparison of Scott US #145 and #156 (click on pic for full-size), "borrowed" from an all-around good guy (Roger) and one of my favorite sites:  The Swedish Tiger US#156The general rule of thumb for this stamp when distinguishing between 145 & 156 while already eliminating other possibilities -- if you see any sort of ink mark in the bottom half of the pearl, it is generally considered the secret mark, regardless of how small or weak the ink mark may be. In other words, the secret mark is usually but not always so clearly defined. |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 21, 2022 9:08:37 GMT
Okay, I cropped it and I think I see it. What say you?  |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 21, 2022 9:54:32 GMT
Now how do I tell if it's a 156 or 182? It will go into my Mystic album and I'd like to get the number right.
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Beryllium Guy
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Posts: 5,656
What I collect: Worldwide Stamps 1840-1930
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Post by Beryllium Guy on May 21, 2022 10:02:46 GMT
Thanks for that latest image post, zipper. I think it is now pretty clear that the mark is there, so it's definitely not Sc145. I am not sure how to distinguish between the other possibilities. Perhaps by color (just a guess)? Kim ( khj), can you tell us more? Normally, once I have it narrowed down a bit, I check the catalogue values and if there is a large differential, I will assume that mine is the lowest CV until I can prove otherwise. |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 21, 2022 10:10:54 GMT
I seriously need new glasses, but won't risk it. I haven't left my building in 26 months because I'm in the high-risk category, so please forgive me for being a pest.
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Post by gstamps on May 21, 2022 10:23:46 GMT
156 - white wove paper.Thin or Thick
182 - Soft porous paper
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 21, 2022 10:42:56 GMT
Thank you!
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khj
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Post by khj on May 21, 2022 20:43:33 GMT
I am not sure how to distinguish between the other possibilities. Perhaps by color (just a guess)? I'm not good with color shades. As it turns out, most (not all) of the color shades (pale/dark/normal ultramarine, gray blue) exists for both #145 and #156. #156 does come in the additional flavor of blue. Same problem with #156 & #182; both come in dark ultramarine, gray blue, and blue, although #156 does come in the additional 2 flavors of pale/normal ultramarine. At the website I mentioned earlier, Roger does present a sampling of the color shades on the page for The Swedish Tiger US#145, scroll down about 20% to the section on "The Shades". But he doesn't go into all the shades -- absent are the dark/pale ultramarine shades, and no comparison between the gray blue and blue shades. In a nutshell, unless you have the blue variety with fresh color and better than average condition, it's pretty hard to rely on color to distinguish between #145 & #156. So if your cancel inconveniently covers the pearl with the secret mark --  |
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khj
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Post by khj on May 21, 2022 20:46:09 GMT
I seriously need new glasses, but won't risk it. I haven't left my building in 26 months because I'm in the high-risk category, so please forgive me for being a pest. You're not a pest at all. I have the same problem with my glasses. Even if I get new ones, my vision will continue to deteriorate quickly. I've pretty much resorted to using a scanner or cellphone pic, and then blowing it up on my laptop screen to see the details. I've been digitizing my catalogs/books for the same reason. Besides, when you ask, it gives us (me included) an opportunity to learn or refresh our memories on things we learned in the past. |
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khj
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Post by khj on May 21, 2022 20:59:35 GMT
Now how do I tell if it's a 156 or 182? 156 - white wove paper.Thin or Thick 182 - Soft porous paper If you are not already aware, at the same The Swedish Tiger #145 webpage, right after the color shades, is a section discussing the hard paper vs soft porous paper (note they are actually both "wove" paper). If your vision limitations prevent you from easily seeing the coarse uneven texture/weave of the soft porous paper even with a magnifier, I find an easy way is to enlarge a cellphone pic of the perforation tips. On the soft porous paper, you will readily see one or more paper fibers/shreds sticking out of torn perf tips on many of the perf tips (you can't miss it), whereas the hard paper will only have fibers/shreds only occasionally (you typically have to make an "effort" to look for them). Do it enough times with known soft porous paper (e.g., Columbians) compared to known hard paper (any pre-1877 US stamp), and you can get fairly skilled at IDing soft wove paper without even having to pick up the stamp. |
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khj
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Posts: 1,467
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Post by khj on May 21, 2022 21:08:32 GMT
Extracted/combined from another very good website, StampSmarter:  |
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 22, 2022 3:05:23 GMT
Wow! I'm impressed. Thank you ever so much.
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Post by carabop on May 23, 2022 1:15:24 GMT
Curious to know if you were able to figure out which stamp this is Zipper.
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zipper
Member
Posts: 2,649
What I collect: Classic GB, QV, France Ceres/Napoleon, Classic U.S., Cinderella & Poster Stamps
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Post by zipper on May 23, 2022 1:55:44 GMT
It's a 156.
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banknoteguy
Member
Posts: 284
What I collect: 19th Century US, High denomination US (> $1), 19th century covers US, Indian Feudatory States and most recently I acquired a BigBlue [with about 5,000 stamps] and pristine pages.
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Post by banknoteguy on May 24, 2022 11:32:34 GMT
Determining the difference between a Sc.156 and Sc.182 is down to the difference between the hard Continental Banknote paper and the soft American Banknote paper. Some have advocated the snap test but it never works for me. The American paper is a more coarse weave and back lit you can often see the coarse weave.
I agree that if there is any blue ink at all in the pearl it is not a Sc.145.
This is my Sc.156:
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